Re: For the love of God,Allah or whoever-McDermott GO!!! : Mon Mar 31, 2014 7:38 am  

Think the issue is being too conservative against the top teams (even after knowing Saints missing men McDermott still said Leeds were underdogs which I don't think anyone else would believe). Something similar happened vs Wire when we should've scored more points but weren't adventurous or create enough in the final 20 even though we got there enough times.

After some batterings against the top teams in his first few years and issues with not getting field position because we weren't going down the middle I think he'd changed his approach and instead of the trying to score off every set kinda approach we're seeing a play for field position, grind it out approach.....which does have some merits at certain parts of a match. But you also need to do something a bit extra to get past the better teams try line.

We just need to be not too respectful to the top sides and go into our shells so much.

Re: For the love of God,Allah or whoever-McDermott GO!!! : Mon Mar 31, 2014 10:54 am  

ThePrinter wrote:

Think the issue is being too conservative against the top teams (even after knowing Saints missing men McDermott still said Leeds were underdogs which I don't think anyone else would believe). Something similar happened vs Wire when we should've scored more points but weren't adventurous or create enough in the final 20 even though we got there enough times.

After some batterings against the top teams in his first few years and issues with not getting field position because we weren't going down the middle I think he'd changed his approach and instead of the trying to score off every set kinda approach we're seeing a play for field position, grind it out approach.....which does have some merits at certain parts of a match. But you also need to do something a bit extra to get past the better teams try line.

We just need to be not too respectful to the top sides and go into our shells so much.

We certainly had more than enough ball and field position to post more than 10 points.Ultimately, our forwards did their job by getting us in the right areas often enough and defended well through the middle.Its down to the halves to bring the backline into play and they didnt do that at any time really that i can recall.It all looked dis -jointed with no real creativity at all. Either Burrow would dart at the line, Sinfield would hit a forward with a crash ball or McGuire would run up his own backside trying the dummy, step and go that teams read like a book these days since he lost his pace.

Re: For the love of God,Allah or whoever-McDermott GO!!! : Mon Mar 31, 2014 11:48 am  

Biff Tannen wrote:

We certainly had more than enough ball and field position to post more than 10 points.Ultimately, our forwards did their job by getting us in the right areas often enough and defended well through the middle.Its down to the halves to bring the backline into play and they didnt do that at any time really that i can recall.It all looked dis -jointed with no real creativity at all. Either Burrow would dart at the line, Sinfield would hit a forward with a crash ball or McGuire would run up his own backside trying the dummy, step and go that teams read like a book these days since he lost his pace.

I recall highlighting something along these lines towards the end of the 2013 regular season. Whilst some were just constantly on about the forwards I said what the 2013 season had really shown us is that one of the golden trio had to make way (at least to the bench) because we were making enough yards and made enough visits to the opposition 20 to score more points than we actually did.

I think Aiton has been a good addition this year and was a important loss for us on Friday. Also with Hardaker improving as a creative FB then it's not all gloom on that front going forward.

Re: For the love of God,Allah or whoever-McDermott GO!!! : Mon Mar 31, 2014 12:30 pm  

ThePrinter wrote:

I think Aiton has been a good addition this year and was a important loss for us on Friday. Also with Hardaker improving as a creative FB then it's not all gloom on that front going forward.

Aiton has looked a very good bit of business so far and i do think he could have made all the difference on Friday. Burrow had a good game as an individual on the night but we do seem more balanced and less one dimensional as a team with Aiton on the pitch.

Re: For the love of God,Allah or whoever-McDermott GO!!! : Tue Apr 01, 2014 10:33 am  

I wouldn't worry too much this year.
Leeds are still one of the best teams in the comp and it wouldn't surprise me if they win the gf AGAIN.
I think every saints player knew Leeds where favourites to everyone including the majority of saints fans and went uo there with a point to prove.
Leeds can easily raise their game and beat anyone in te league.
That said. I thought before the first super league game saints where favourites and now I'm more confident they will win gf, ccf or both

Re: For the love of God,Allah or whoever-McDermott GO!!! : Tue Apr 01, 2014 11:50 am  

There is an argument that it would be better to keep ‘plan b’ under wraps at this stage of the season than throw it out there in what was, regardless of who we were playing, a run of the mill regular season game. ‘Plan A’ has worked pretty well, we have had a good start to the season, and if we can continue to put the lesser teams away and stay with the top teams (I think before the start of the season, everyone would have accepted 1 loss, a win v Wire and a draw with Hudds at this stage of the year) then we would probably see a ‘plan B’ when it was necessary.

In my view the disappointing thing wasn’t the lack of a ‘plan B’ or the lack of McDermott making some big tactical or positional change it was the lack of general creativity and structure in our game. The Forwards dominated the Saints forwards, they set a platform and we should have taken advantage of it. Saints defensive line hung back a bit and gave up lots of little battles to win wars and our halves, looked completely devoid of any real ideas to stamp authority. Our 2nd phase play was appalling, Watkins, even though he is still making a few silly mistakes, ran riot over on his side, he made 3 or 4 clean breaks and got his hands free numerous times, but we had no-one following up, We are lacking any sort of speed in our follow up play, and we are lacking structure and creativity from the halves. Hardaker isn’t Tomkins, he isn’t Webb, he isn’t running of set plays and he isn’t spreading the play from third receiver. He should have been on the fringes of every drive from the forwards, and he should be on the centres inside every time it goes wide. Mcguire Circa 2004 would have had an absolute field day in that game but he has lost that speed. Hardaker should spend this season learning everything he can about support play from him.

Re: For the love of God,Allah or whoever-McDermott GO!!! : Tue Apr 01, 2014 12:27 pm  

SmokeyTA wrote:

There is an argument that it would be better to keep ‘plan b’ under wraps at this stage of the season than throw it out there in what was, regardless of who we were playing, a run of the mill regular season game. ‘Plan A’ has worked pretty well, we have had a good start to the season, and if we can continue to put the lesser teams away and stay with the top teams (I think before the start of the season, everyone would have accepted 1 loss, a win v Wire and a draw with Hudds at this stage of the year) then we would probably see a ‘plan B’ when it was necessary.

In my view the disappointing thing wasn’t the lack of a ‘plan B’ or the lack of McDermott making some big tactical or positional change it was the lack of general creativity and structure in our game. The Forwards dominated the Saints forwards, they set a platform and we should have taken advantage of it. Saints defensive line hung back a bit and gave up lots of little battles to win wars and our halves, looked completely devoid of any real ideas to stamp authority. Our 2nd phase play was appalling, Watkins, even though he is still making a few silly mistakes, ran riot over on his side, he made 3 or 4 clean breaks and got his hands free numerous times, but we had no-one following up, We are lacking any sort of speed in our follow up play, and we are lacking structure and creativity from the halves. Hardaker isn’t Tomkins, he isn’t Webb, he isn’t running of set plays and he isn’t spreading the play from third receiver. He should have been on the fringes of every drive from the forwards, and he should be on the centres inside every time it goes wide. Mcguire Circa 2004 would have had an absolute field day in that game but he has lost that speed. Hardaker should spend this season learning everything he can about support play from him.

Well said

Re: For the love of God,Allah or whoever-McDermott GO!!! : Tue Apr 01, 2014 7:12 pm  

I think it was unfortunate that McGuire got that Rugby gods injury at Wigan a few years ago and not been the same since.He was in a good vein of form at that time

Re: For the love of God,Allah or whoever-McDermott GO!!! : Tue Apr 01, 2014 7:54 pm  

Love him or hate him McDermott has a tough job on his hands. Some big names with big egos who need to start to make way. Will be interesting to see how it's handled

Re: For the love of God,Allah or whoever-McDermott GO!!! : Tue Apr 01, 2014 9:44 pm  

SmokeyTA wrote:

There is an argument that it would be better to keep ‘plan b’ under wraps at this stage of the season than throw it out there in what was, regardless of who we were playing, a run of the mill regular season game. ‘Plan A’ has worked pretty well, we have had a good start to the season, and if we can continue to put the lesser teams away and stay with the top teams (I think before the start of the season, everyone would have accepted 1 loss, a win v Wire and a draw with Hudds at this stage of the year) then we would probably see a ‘plan B’ when it was necessary.

Never really understand when people talk about ''plan a and plan b''.

Presumably, someones 'plan a' will be to get on top of the opposition, give few penalties away, make few mistakes, convert this to points and win the game.

Pretty crazy stuff.

What do you think Mcdermott's 'plan A' has been so far this season? And does anyone care to speculate about what his 'Plan B' could possibly entail?