Re: For the love of God,Allah or whoever-McDermott GO!!! : Tue Apr 01, 2014 9:59 pm  

FlexWheeler wrote:

Never really understand when people talk about ''plan a and plan b''.

Presumably, someones 'plan a' will be to get on top of the opposition, give few penalties away, make few mistakes, convert this to points and win the game.

Pretty crazy stuff.

What do you think Mcdermott's 'plan A' has been so far this season? And does anyone care to speculate about what his 'Plan B' could possibly entail?

I talked about it previously but in the games against the top teams I think the plan is to grind out a win. I get the feeling against those teams we're content with getting a repeat set or 2 points if they commit an offence when we visit their 20m.

In the games vs Widnes, Catalans, HKR we had a period were we stepped on the accelerator and stormed away, in the games vs Wire and Saints we had chances to step on the gas but (as with some games vs top teams last year) seemed to keep the foot hovering over the brake peddle.

Granted more caution and doing the basics right against the best teams is vital but also you need to produce something a bit extra for a certain period in the match to get points past them. We saw it in the 2012 CC Semi vs Wigan and the GF vs Wire where you move it about more and get your points, since then against the top teams it just seems to be a bit too much 'up the jumper'.

Re: For the love of God,Allah or whoever-McDermott GO!!! : Wed Apr 02, 2014 7:17 am  

FlexWheeler wrote:

Never really understand when people talk about ''plan a and plan b''.

Presumably, someones 'plan a' will be to get on top of the opposition, give few penalties away, make few mistakes, convert this to points and win the game.

Pretty crazy stuff.

What do you think Mcdermott's 'plan A' has been so far this season? And does anyone care to speculate about what his 'Plan B' could possibly entail?

I don't think we're talking about a literal 'Plan B', but to generally try something different when the game-plan he's instigated is not working. During the Saints he had the opportunity and resources to change round the 1/2's and 3/4's to 'mix it up' a bit, but he didn't. He stuck to his game-plan.

In certain situations this can be exactly what you need the team to do but I don't think last Friday was one of them and BMcD missed the call. No-one is infallible and IMO BMcD made the wrong call against Saints and you're right, most of this season he's been spot on, just not on this occasion.

Re: For the love of God,Allah or whoever-McDermott GO!!! : Wed Apr 02, 2014 8:18 am  

FlexWheeler wrote:

Never really understand when people talk about ''plan a and plan b''.

Presumably, someones 'plan a' will be to get on top of the opposition, give few penalties away, make few mistakes, convert this to points and win the game.

Pretty crazy stuff.

What do you think Mcdermott's 'plan A' has been so far this season? And does anyone care to speculate about what his 'Plan B' could possibly entail?

I think you're underestimating the amount of analysis that goes into a game plan. I would imagine that plan A centres around identifying weaknesses in players or structures and how to exploit them. Also, how to get the max impact from your top players. THis is done with video analysis of the oppositions previous games.

In terms of PLan B I would expect the coach to see that something isn't working, and look at what he can do to change that. For me, stuff not changing is either the coach doesn't see that the game isn't going to plan, or that he doesn't have a plan B.

Re: For the love of God,Allah or whoever-McDermott GO!!! : Wed Apr 02, 2014 10:02 am  

As has been pointed out by several posters - the game plan was working, in that it gave Leeds plenty of good field positions, repeat sets and sufficient opportunities to win the game. So it was not the fault of the game plan. What happened on the night was a combination of poor finishing, poor kicking and poor option taking which has to be the fault of the players. This was further compounded by some tremendous defence from Saints and not just not just on their own line.

From the moment early in the game when Hardaker was smashed by Wellans his attacking threat was made ineffective on his kick returns and he just didn't get into the 2nd standoff position at the right times to create outside space as he has been doing so far this season. Watkins too was allowed to run into a defensive net so although he made tackle busts he never made a clean break or created scoring opportunities. We were also below par in our half backs with both looking pedestrian, poor kicking and again taking wrong options.

Yet we were still in a position to either draw or win the game with 3 or 4 minutes left on the clock. So few would have bet against Leeds achieving that given our history. So I can understand BM backing his players to do it. However I would have used BJB at FB as his extra pace might have made the all important break.

However in the end it was a great last minute try that won the game for the Saints.

I think the critics are disappointed because they had so many reserves in the side and therefore it was a match we were expected to win - some believed by a cricket score! As it turned out their first choices could not have played better - with a solid defence, very good kicking game, few errors and smart attacking plays. But that is what is so attractive about sport - it is so unpredictable. So although a loss for Leeds it was a victory for Rugby League.

Re: For the love of God,Allah or whoever-McDermott GO!!! : Wed Apr 02, 2014 10:19 am  

Juan Cornetto wrote:

As has been pointed out by several posters - the game plan was working, in that it gave Leeds plenty of good field positions, repeat sets and sufficient opportunities to win the game. So it was not the fault of the game plan. What happened on the night was a combination of poor finishing, poor kicking and poor option taking which has to be the fault of the players. This was further compounded by some tremendous defence from Saints and not just not just on their own line.

From the moment early in the game when Hardaker was smashed by Wellans his attacking threat was made ineffective on his kick returns and he just didn't get into the 2nd standoff position at the right times to create outside space as he has been doing so far this season. Watkins too was allowed to run into a defensive net so although he made tackle busts he never made a clean break or created scoring opportunities. We were also below par in our half backs with both looking pedestrian, poor kicking and again taking wrong options.

Yet we were still in a position to either draw or win the game with 3 or 4 minutes left on the clock. So few would have bet against Leeds achieving that given our history. So I can understand BM backing his players to do it. However I would have used BJB at FB as his extra pace might have made the all important break.

However in the end it was a great last minute try that won the game for the Saints.

I think the critics are disappointed because they had so many reserves in the side and therefore it was a match we were expected to win - some believed by a cricket score! As it turned out their first choices could not have played better - with a solid defence, very good kicking game, few errors and smart attacking plays. But that is what is so attractive about sport - it is so unpredictable. So although a loss for Leeds it was a victory for Rugby League.

The forwards half of the gameplan worked. I'm not sure the back part did. Bringing BJB and moving HArdaker could have made the difference and added some extra cutting edge

Re: For the love of God,Allah or whoever-McDermott GO!!! : Wed Apr 02, 2014 10:33 am  

Juan Cornetto wrote:

So I would have brought on BJB at FB moved Hardaker to centre, Burrow to SH, Sinfield to 9, Ward into the pack for Clarkson and Mags to 6. Ok I know this is a lot of changes but firstly these changes would have players either in their favoured positions or where they have experience so all would have been comfortable.

Why doesn't the coach select players in their favoured positions to begin with? And why doesn't he use his full compliment of replacements?

Re: For the love of God,Allah or whoever-McDermott GO!!! : Wed Apr 02, 2014 12:19 pm  

tvoc wrote:

Why doesn't the coach select players in their favoured positions to begin with? And why doesn't he use his full compliment of replacements?

Because he is the coach in the full knowlege of the game plan, the weeks practice, the state of each player, the state of the game and his judgement should have worked had the players not let him down. While we are just spectators who can only make guesses

Re: For the love of God,Allah or whoever-McDermott GO!!! : Wed Apr 02, 2014 12:21 pm  

tvoc wrote:

Why doesn't the coach select players in their favoured positions to begin with?

How do you know he doesn't?

Re: For the love of God,Allah or whoever-McDermott GO!!! : Wed Apr 02, 2014 1:58 pm  

I don't but the post that I was responding to implied that this is the case and I was interested to hear an explanation as to why a coach would do this if indeed that is what is happening.

Re: For the love of God,Allah or whoever-McDermott GO!!! : Wed Apr 02, 2014 2:17 pm  

Juan Cornetto wrote:

Because he is the coach in the full knowlege of the game plan, the weeks practice, the state of each player, the state of the game and his judgement should have worked had the players not let him down. While we are just spectators who can only make guesses

But you've previously said in the post I replied to:

Juan Cornetto wrote:

so all would have been comfortable.

Wouldn't they only have been comfortable had this mass movements of bodies and roles been a part of that week's preparation? If it was a part of the preparation why didn't the coach follow such a plan?

You mentioned the following:

Jones-Bishop - Full-back
Hardaker - Centre
Burrow - Scrum-Half
Sinfield - Hooker
Ward - Pack
McGuire - Stand-off

which of these players are you saying would be moving into their preferred positions - had your suggested changes been made?