Re: For the love of God,Allah or whoever-McDermott GO!!! : Wed Jul 23, 2014 2:26 pm  

D4mo78 wrote:

Ricky Hatton said in an interview that he never shadow boxed for 12 rounds because he felt it made fighters too robotic. He liked to train for a few rounds in different scenarios so he could react to situations. Under McDermott, to me, we seem like a team with a plan for 80 minutes, rather than one with a few plans to mix it up.

The players are trained to the point, that when it's not working, there's no alternative. I'm not looking for miracles, but at this level when most defences are strong, teams need something extra in attack to break them down. Dummy runners, second phase, offloads - things many of us see lacking. This surely comes down to the coach and how he prepares them. So many times, we offload and the next tackle is within 5m of the offload. Other teams offload and look to exploit the space.

I try to think of a run of a games where we've been on fire, but I struggle.

With all the experiences in our team do you not think the players should be able to think 'you know what this isnt working, lets try something slightly different'?

Players shouldn't need to be told to offload or support a player in attack, it should be something natural that happens

I cant imagine McDermott doesnt have them running dummy runners and different plays in training, IMO its the players not taking things from the training ground to the pitch

Re: For the love of God,Allah or whoever-McDermott GO!!! : Thu Jul 24, 2014 8:05 am  

Him wrote:

those coaches who need these sessions the most are the ones least likely to attend!

But Brian McD IS going to the training, so where does this leave the point you are making?

Re: For the love of God,Allah or whoever-McDermott GO!!! : Thu Jul 24, 2014 11:54 am  

leedsbarmyarmy wrote:

With all the experiences in our team do you not think the players should be able to think 'you know what this isnt working, lets try something slightly different'?

Players shouldn't need to be told to offload or support a player in attack, it should be something natural that happens

I cant imagine McDermott doesnt have them running dummy runners and different plays in training, IMO its the players not taking things from the training ground to the pitch

You'd think so. But surely the coach would have addressed it and things would have changed. Let's be honest, it's not just this year out attack looks stagnant. So either they are his tactics and the players won't divert from them or the players aren't listening to a word he says and ignoring the last weeks training. I know which option I'd go for.

Don't you think experienced players with so many titles would be good at taking their coaches plan onto the pitch and executing it?

Re: For the love of God,Allah or whoever-McDermott GO!!! : Thu Jul 24, 2014 9:40 pm  

RhinoNeil wrote:

All your above points are granted and have credibility at certain points during this season. But I'm looking at Leeds over a wider period. We are so reliant upon blood and effort, busting a gut for the side. It is almost as if it doesn't come natural to Leeds as we're set up to go to war on every occasion without much focus on attacking shape and the natural flow of our rugby. That mirrors the ex Marine which is McDermott. Then when the injuries/fatigue arrives and our physicality drops as a result, the young kids are just not tough enough to go to war and don't yet have the skills for the off the cuff stuff we play. Where as if we were well set-up in attack with structures in place we still should be going through those plays, even if they do result in a drop ball and a missed timed run through lack of experience. Instead we are just so flat its like watching your amateur side. On Friday there was no reason what so ever for Joel Moon to repeatedly cut back on the inside and run across the line of defence without a single player putting his hand up to crash onto the ball or run as a decoy. Its all off the cuff stuff. There was no reason what so ever to not put another play on whilst he was teasing the defence, instead we stood there clueless and made to look pretty silly. Hey, that can be down to the players and no one putting their hand up to give Moon a runner is not good enough. If that is the case I expect McDermott to come down hard on them this week and see a marked improvement. But I've been waiting for that for years...Lets see if it happens on Friday.

In addition, for what its worth I don't think McDermott shouldn't be Leeds' 1st team coach. Just for him to share the work load and not be Mr Leeds. We need that extra coach that has the responsibility from McDermott to shape Leeds better up in attack. Step forward Dunneman, we can dream.

The thing is that it's the sort of tough pay that has won us titles. Grand finals are nearly always won by a small margin on a tight game.

Last season we ran out of bodies but we should never underestimate the affect of being tougher than the opposition

Re: For the love of God,Allah or whoever-McDermott GO!!! : Thu Jul 24, 2014 10:14 pm  

The Eagle wrote:

The thing is that it's the sort of tough pay that has won us titles. Grand finals are nearly always won by a small margin on a tight game.

Last season we ran out of bodies but we should never underestimate the affect of being tougher than the opposition

That's kinda the reason I don't mind us not hammering opposition by massive scorelines like Wire and Wigan often do and have done in the recent past.

I do think the problem that has stopped the last 3 LLS winners even reaching the GF has been lack of tough and close games during the year. People say that England's problem at international level is lack of close and intense games.....well the last 3 LLS winners have pretty much strolled through the year with minimal tests.

So when we get pushed by the likes of HKR or lose to Wakey, whilst frustrating or disappointing at the time it probably does us more good in the long run than going through the motions with a 40-50 point stroll from the 1st minute of the game.

Look at Warrington's run in 2011 and the complete lack of close games from April 15th (Round 10) onwards

W 64-6
W 60-0
L 10-24
W 58-14
W 80-0
W 62-0
W 112-0
W 42-6
W 56-16
L 16-18
W 46-16
W 35-28
W 48-18
W 28-16
W 54-24
L 24-44 to Wigan in CC QF
W 66-12
W 25-12
W 39-12
W 34-12
W 47-0
L 24-26 to a Leeds in playoffs

13 of those 18 wins were by 30 points or more, only one was less than a 12 point win.

Wigan's 2012 season is perhaps even more noticeable. They won 25 games in all competitions and only ONE was by less than 12 points and that was against HKR away.

Both lost to us in the playoffs and both had strolls in the first week of the playoffs, Wire beat Hudds 47-0 in 2011 & Wigan beat Catalans 46-6 in 2012. Hardly the tough preparation you need to claim a GF.

Re: For the love of God,Allah or whoever-McDermott GO!!! : Fri Jul 25, 2014 12:02 am  

I don't mind us getting pushed, I'm just concerned at our ability to win these tight games. It's something we don't seem to have right now. In the past I'm pretty certain we'd have won at least 2 or 3 of the close games we've drawn or lost.
Most notably Wakey away & Cas at home.

Re: For the love of God,Allah or whoever-McDermott GO!!! : Fri Jul 25, 2014 6:49 am  

Him wrote:

I don't mind us getting pushed, I'm just concerned at our ability to win these tight games. It's something we don't seem to have right now. In the past I'm pretty certain we'd have won at least 2 or 3 of the close games we've drawn or lost.
Most notably Wakey away & Cas at home.

If Leeds had kept 13 players on the field I believe they would have won the Cas match by continuing to grind it out. Leeds were in control until Sinfield's shocking brain fart.

As for Wakey...uggh!

Re: For the love of God,Allah or whoever-McDermott GO!!! : Fri Jul 25, 2014 6:54 am  

nantwichexile wrote:

If Leeds had kept 13 players on the field I believe they would have won the Cas match by continuing to grind it out. Leeds were in control until Sinfield's shocking brain fart.

On this we can agree

Re: For the love of God,Allah or whoever-McDermott GO!!! : Fri Jul 25, 2014 7:09 am  

Him wrote:

I don't mind us getting pushed, I'm just concerned at our ability to win these tight games. It's something we don't seem to have right now. In the past I'm pretty certain we'd have won at least 2 or 3 of the close games we've drawn or lost.
Most notably Wakey away & Cas at home.

As has been mentioned for Cas it was a Sinfield brainfart and against Wakey we were missing a ton of experience on the pitch.

Re: For the love of God,Allah or whoever-McDermott GO!!! : Fri Jul 25, 2014 7:29 am  

I don't think the Cas result had anything to do with the Sinfield brainfart of the sending off. Unless you lot are not on about the sending off?

Yes, it was down to a Sinfield brainfart, but that was not going for the drop earlier, and using his head to win the game. With or without the sending off, the frustration had already set in, and Cas like they did last night, were always going to give it a last hurrahhhh.

As for soft. I was speaking with Brett Ferres a couple of weeks back and he was giving it the same old same old, that always goes through the game, that Leeds have no underbelly, they do not like it when you are in their face, and too soft. I gave him the same line, of we have enough GF wins to show different, and his response was we are talking about two different teams mate.