Re: Enough is enough : Mon Apr 11, 2016 4:14 pm  

[*]

Gotcha wrote:

Replaced? who said replace? It is development you concentrate on not replacing at earlier years. Handley is perfectly capable, and looks perfectly at ease, so not sure why he is mentioned, but then again look how many games he got before this season, which kind of backs up the point.

Sutcliffe isn't out of his depth because of his age, he is out of his depth because he is not capable of playing stand off at this level, a point quite a few could see previously. That is different to that suggested.

Well we can't be playing 15/16 men at the same time so they would need to replace someone for those games they played. Handley replaced Briscoe out of necessity, so for Golding to get that game time we would have needed to drop Hardaker Hall or one of the halves. For Lilley and Sutcliffe we would have needed to drop McGuire and Sinfield. We do that last year to find out if they are good enough for this. Find out they apparently aren't and don't win the treble last year. Sounds a great plan.

Here is a prediction. Liam Sutcliffe will play stand off for England in a major international. He is far far far better than you give him credit for and is far from the reason we are struggling. The scapegoating he is receiving right now is 1 of 2 obvious reasons youngsters aren't thrown in like you argue for.

Re: Enough is enough : Mon Apr 11, 2016 4:15 pm  

tvoc wrote:

McDermott being lined up for Hull KR? I can't believe it, one of the most sought after jobs in the game. Guess I'll just have to hold my hands up and admit that I was wrong in regards to his post Leeds career.

He won't be lined up by Hull KR. Peacock is doing a very effective job there in his recruitment for next season, and I just can not see him wanting to work with McDermott on that front.

Re: Enough is enough : Mon Apr 11, 2016 4:20 pm  

SmokeyTA wrote:

[*]Well we can't be playing 15/16 men at the same time so they would need to replace someone for those games they played. Handley replaced Briscoe out of necessity, so for Golding to get that game time we would have needed to drop Hardaker Hall or one of the halves. For Lilley and Sutcliffe we would have needed to drop McGuire and Sinfield. We do that last year to find out if they are good enough for this. Find out they apparently aren't and don't win the treble last year. Sounds a great plan.

Again you are not looking at it correctly. Replace is to be permanent. Resting someone and developing someone else is not replacing, it works for both players. It is this that was moaned at previously, and not what you are saying was moaned at now. That is how it should have worked.

SmokeyTA wrote:

Here is a prediction. Liam Sutcliffe will play stand off for England in a major international. He is far far far better than you give him credit for and is far from the reason we are struggling. The scapegoating he is receiving right now is 1 of 2 obvious reasons youngsters aren't thrown in like you argue for.

You can predict all you like, but cloud cuckoo land thinking is hard to come right. You also said Aiton was not important to us and was an average journeyman. Yeah you were spot on there...... no really. Sutcliffe is not a stand off simple as that, I very much doubt he will play for us after this season unless he comes good in another role. He isn't scapegoated, as this was pointed out before the season started. Scapegoating is in hindsight not before it happens. Infact I actually said after been at Saturdays game on here that he looked very comfortable at centre, so it is hardly that he is been picked at.

Re: Enough is enough : Mon Apr 11, 2016 4:21 pm  

SmokeyTA wrote:

[*]Well we can't be playing 15/16 men at the same time so they would need to replace someone for those games they played. Handley replaced Briscoe out of necessity, so for Golding to get that game time we would have needed to drop Hardaker Hall or one of the halves. For Lilley and Sutcliffe we would have needed to drop McGuire and Sinfield. We do that last year to find out if they are good enough for this. Find out they apparently aren't and don't win the treble last year. Sounds a great plan.

Here is a prediction. Liam Sutcliffe will play stand off for England in a major international. He is far far far better than you give him credit for and is far from the reason we are struggling. The scapegoating he is receiving right now is 1 of 2 obvious reasons youngsters aren't thrown in like you argue for.

Not for some time mate, I reckon the way the England team is ran they will pick any player getting regular NRL games even if they are playing as bad as Widdop is right now, they even picked Williams and Matty Smith over Gale mate, they are clueless!
The mantra must be that if there isnt an NRL player in that position just play whoever plays for Wigan

Best he can hope for is a squad place and a few games from the bench but he wont get that this year given how we are playing

Re: Enough is enough : Mon Apr 11, 2016 4:25 pm  

Gotcha wrote:

Again you are not looking at it correctly. Replace is to be permanent. Resting someone and developing someone else is not replacing, it works for both players. It is this that was moaned at previously, and not what you are saying was moaned at now. That is how it should have worked.


You can predict all you like, but cloud cuckoo land thinking is hard to come right. You also said Aiton was not important to us and was an average journeyman. Yeah you were spot on there...... no really. Sutcliffe is not a stand off simple as that, I very much doubt he will play for us after this season unless he comes good in another role. He isn't scapegoated, as this was pointed out before the season started. Scapegoating is in hindsight not before it happens. Infact I actually said after been at Saturdays game on here that he looked very comfortable at centre, so it is hardly that he is been picked at.

The reason this country has produced precisely 0 world class halves in the last 20 years is that attitude, as soon as a young English half has a bad run of games they are not good enough and need moving to fullback or centre, therefore they dont develop. But if a 30 year old Aussie plays exactly the same it is just bad form

Tomkins is the perfect example, he could have developed into one of the top 6s but instead of trying to improve parts of his game, he was moved to fullback to give him 'more space'

Re: Enough is enough : Mon Apr 11, 2016 4:32 pm  

Gotcha wrote:

Again you are not looking at it correctly. Replace is to be permanent. Resting someone and developing someone else is not replacing, it works for both players. It is this that was moaned at previously, and not what you are saying was moaned at now. That is how it should have worked.

So we rest Hardaker/hall Sinfield and McGuire find out their replacements aren't good enough last year and don't win the treble? There's always jam tomorrow.

You can predict all you like, but cloud cuckoo land thinking is hard to come right. You also said Aiton was not important to us and was an average journeyman. Yeah you were spot on there...... no really. Sutcliffe is not a stand off simple as that, I very much doubt he will play for us after this season unless he comes good in another role. He isn't scapegoated, as this was pointed out before the season started. Scapegoating is in hindsight not before it happens. Infact I actually said after been at Saturdays game on here that he looked very comfortable at centre, so it is hardly that he is been picked at.

And Aiton has been a bit part player at Les Catalans. Our problems don't stem from us missing him.Paul Aiton has fewer assists half the amount of tackles fewer carries and fewer metres than Falloon. Les Catalans 2nd best hooker is really proving me wrong.

Re: Enough is enough : Mon Apr 11, 2016 4:51 pm  

leedsnsouths wrote:

The reason this country has produced precisely 0 world class halves in the last 20 years is that attitude, as soon as a young English half has a bad run of games they are not good enough and need moving to fullback or centre, therefore they dont develop. But if a 30 year old Aussie plays exactly the same it is just bad form

Tomkins is the perfect example, he could have developed into one of the top 6s but instead of trying to improve parts of his game, he was moved to fullback to give him 'more space'

Nobody on here backs youngsters development more than me over the years. But sometimes you have to realise you are flogging a dead horse.

We don't produce world class halfs because of the way we develop them, not because of writing them off after a few games. The issue is from leaving junior rugby, where they are free to develop skills, into a set way of performing when they get to professional clubs, that is what has made this area of our game go backwards. To be fair to some clubs, and Leeds are actually one of them this season at academy level, they are now actually turning round and not including the halfs in the robotic ways, but actually telling them to play what they see in front of them. This is how skills develop.

We have had better halfs than Sutcliffe in our systems over the last decade who have been and gone, and actually not even playing at a level anymore. He is completely different to what you are suggesting.

Your Tomkins argument makes no sense at all. A fullback nowadays is an extra half, his game is developing exactly the same whether he was at 1 or 6. That is the modern game. Look at O'Brien at Salford, has he been written off too?

And by the way, I have written off a damn sit more Aussies at this club than I have homegrown. I meen good god, in two pages I am accused of slating not giving youngsters a chance previously, to now getting slated for not backing youngsters.

Re: Enough is enough : Mon Apr 11, 2016 5:27 pm  

Frosties. wrote:

McDermott linked with the KR job for 2017. It wouldn't surprise me with the way we are playing and Leeds allegedly coach shopping. The only problem is a pay of 3 years to McDermott unless he himself takes another job and then we go looking.

I have heard similar, although have no evidence. It is a bit odd Hull Kr saying they have a new coach coming in 2017 but not saying the name. Perhaps, and I stress perhaps they are waiting until Leeds can say who the new man at rhinos is.

Re: Enough is enough : Mon Apr 11, 2016 5:51 pm  

I thought McDermott was on a rolling 1 year contract ?

Re: Enough is enough : Mon Apr 11, 2016 5:58 pm  

I thought a 1 year rolling deal but don't know for sure