Re: Hardaker benched for 80 mins today : Thu Jul 21, 2016 8:34 am  

Sal Paradise wrote:

If you don't agree with what he is saying dismantle his argument.

If he was making the argument for any other reason than to get a rise, that might be a valid point.

We both know he isn't though, whether it's right or wrong.

Re: Hardaker benched for 80 mins today : Thu Jul 21, 2016 8:59 am  

The fitness/strength argument will never be resolved as long as we play 10 or so more games a season than the Aussies.
Something you can't lay at Hardaker's door.

Re: Hardaker benched for 80 mins today : Thu Jul 21, 2016 10:40 am  

Ex-Swarcliffe Rhino wrote:

Because he hasn't needed to.

He's been head and shoulders above most players his entire life, why pass when you have the skillset to skin the opposing player with pace or a juke? Only now has he finally run into players who are playing above him on a consistent basis, this is where he needs to step up and re-tool his game and to be frank, I hope he does, the more players being forced into learning at a consistently higher standard the better. I he cant master basic passing then he wont last long in the NRL.

Only now? 2011/2012 when he playing centre it was called that he needed to learn when to pass and the same happened when he went to FB mid 2012, so that's 4 and a half years he's had.

Re: Hardaker benched for 80 mins today : Thu Jul 21, 2016 11:01 am  

shouldn't some blame be laid at the door of the coaches too?

Re: Hardaker benched for 80 mins today : Thu Jul 21, 2016 12:52 pm  

Old Feller wrote:

The fitness/strength argument will never be resolved as long as we play 10 or so more games a season than the Aussies.
Something you can't lay at Hardaker's door.

That is not the case though is it - the top players in the NRL play almost as many games as our players and at a significantly higher level of intensity.

The initial feedback from Hardaker is the training at Penrith is longer and harder than he is used to.

Re: Hardaker benched for 80 mins today : Thu Jul 21, 2016 1:11 pm  

2015 NRL Grand Final was played on 4 October 2015. Australia didn't have any end of season internationals last year.

Round one was played 3 March 2016.

That's a five month gap between the end of one season and the beginning of the next.

SL Grand Final was played on 10 October. Third Test against New Zealand was played on 14 November. Round one started 4 February. That's less than three months gap for elite players between the end of one season the beginning of the next. Even without the NZ series, the gap between seasons would still be a month longer in the NRL than in SL.

You're not seriously telling me that doesn't impact on the players' ability to prepare their bodies properly?

Re: Hardaker benched for 80 mins today : Thu Jul 21, 2016 1:18 pm  

Our season starts first weekend in February, the Aussie season first weekend in March.
Our GF is second week in October, the NRL GF is on Oct 1st.
A pattern that recurs year on year.
Meaning that our off season is regularly 5/6 weeks shorter than that in Australia, plus there are bye weeks down under.
I do agree though that our coaching & arguably strength & conditioning work is markedly inferior to theirs.

Re: Hardaker benched for 80 mins today : Thu Jul 21, 2016 1:47 pm  

Sal Paradise wrote:

That is not the case though is it - the top players in the NRL play almost as many games as our players and at a significantly higher level of intensity.

The initial feedback from Hardaker is the training at Penrith is longer and harder than he is used to.

Not really. The very top NRL players who play SOO and are in the playoffs play a max of 31 games including the Grand Final. But that's probably only 1 or 2 players per club. And they have bye weeks. And half the teams seasons are 3 or 4 games fewer than that.

SL players play a max of 36

Let's take a good but not top class player in Ablett who played 36 games in 2015.
In the NRL, in a team doing the same as Leeds, he'd have played 27 games.

It's a big difference, especially when the effect is cumulative.

We have a problem because the clubs desperately need games for revenue but the players are knackered. Especially when we have smaller squads and worse facilities.

Re: Hardaker benched for 80 mins today : Thu Jul 21, 2016 2:16 pm  

its not just the cumulative wear and tear, its that once the season is underway priority moves from technique, patterns and play, to nursing players through a season.

Even then its not every part of physicality that can be worked on mid season, players can't be losing or gaining large amounts of muscle during the season

Re: Hardaker benched for 80 mins today : Thu Jul 21, 2016 2:23 pm  

Andy Gilder wrote:

2015 NRL Grand Final was played on 4 October 2015. Australia didn't have any end of season internationals last year.

Round one was played 3 March 2016.

That's a five month gap between the end of one season and the beginning of the next.

SL Grand Final was played on 10 October. Third Test against New Zealand was played on 14 November. Round one started 4 February. That's less than three months gap for elite players between the end of one season the beginning of the next. Even without the NZ series, the gap between seasons would still be a month longer in the NRL than in SL.

You're not seriously telling me that doesn't impact on the players' ability to prepare their bodies properly?

Last season was a one off - most seasons the Aussies are playing in an international series. How did the Kiwis who play in the NRL manage to maintain the appropriate level of fitness then?

It impacts c20 players some of which play in the NRL - James Graham's fitness doesn't appear to suffer from an extended season? How come the rest of SL aren't as fit as their NRL counterparts