Re: The Club in general : Sun Mar 27, 2022 3:47 pm  

batleyrhino wrote:

So now the dust is settling on yet another totally inept performance, it’s time to look at what we can do in the short term to fix things up. I’d start with the defence, if we make ourselves harder to score against we will be “in” every game we play. Defence is about three things, technique, communication and attitude. Working on technique can take time, but attitude and communication should be easy fixes, assuming the players see a future with the club.

We need to make it totally transparent that some players don’t have a future at the club, and start playing the slightly more experienced younger players together to improve the attitude and culture at the club. It’s not time to drop the young ones in, but we have a clutch of 19-23 year olds that should either be playing or leaving to show they can make it or make room for the next batch. I’d be looking at getting them enough game time so they are battle hardened for next season.

We need to find ways to ship out players like Briscoe, Sutcliffe, Donaldson, Thompson, Dwyer, Mellor either during the season to create space for new signings, or at the end of it at the latest. I’d rather have enthusiastic and talented kids playing and learning for the future than players who realistically aren’t going to improve and are part of the problem rather than the solution.

In terms of coaching, we need to bite the bullet and give HKR what they want for TS and DM now, because the changes cannot happen soon enough for us. TS needs to be given the contract he wants and DM still has so much to learn that another 4 years under Tony will turn out to be a blessing. If Tony won’t come then we need a coach with absolutely no connection to the club previously so they don’t carry any baggage. They then get to call the whole coaching side of the club, and appoint who they want so we have a highly skilled and focused coaching organisation, not the half arsed bunch we have now.

I’d play the following when everyone is fit for the rest of this season. Others can come in when we have injuries.

1. Walker (we need to know if ha has it or not).
2. Fusitua (no point bringing him here if he ain’t going to make a difference).
3. Newman (the best Centre prospect at the club).
4. Broadbent (again we need to know what he can do).
5. Handley (he’s made the position his own).
6. Austin (we have no other realistic option, but I wouldn’t renew him).
7. Sezar (but he gets told that unless we see a big improvement he’s gone).
8. Mik (playing in not more than 20 minute bursts).
9. Leeming (can’t believe he’s captain… he’s our best shot at the moment).
10. Tetevano (again in 20 minute bursts, he must start making an impact or he’s gone).
11. Martin (mainly for his goalkicking, but must be much more dynamic with the ball)
12. Bentley (he’s had a very slow start, but is very capable and we need to see it)
13. Smith (but not at first receiver, he’s very capable but is making too many mistakes)

14. Prior (plays in 20 minutes spells and must make his presence felt)
15. Holroyd (the best (only?) Prop prospect we have)
16. Johnson (when fit, he can be the best hooker at the club, Myler when he’s injured)
17. Gannon (very raw but what a prospect, he needs 1-2-1 coaching but will be a great)


You’ve then got players like O’Connor, Tindall, Walters who are close, and Myler who must be kept around to fill the inevitable gaps that come from injuries. Most of the rest can / should be moved on.

What would you do?

Hard to disagree with this. Great post.

Re: The Club in general : Sun Mar 27, 2022 4:47 pm  

batleyrhino wrote:

So now the dust is settling on yet another totally inept performance, it’s time to look at what we can do in the short term to fix things up. I’d start with the defence, if we make ourselves harder to score against we will be “in” every game we play. Defence is about three things, technique, communication and attitude. Working on technique can take time, but attitude and communication should be easy fixes, assuming the players see a future with the club.

We need to make it totally transparent that some players don’t have a future at the club, and start playing the slightly more experienced younger players together to improve the attitude and culture at the club. It’s not time to drop the young ones in, but we have a clutch of 19-23 year olds that should either be playing or leaving to show they can make it or make room for the next batch. I’d be looking at getting them enough game time so they are battle hardened for next season.

We need to find ways to ship out players like Briscoe, Sutcliffe, Donaldson, Thompson, Dwyer, Mellor either during the season to create space for new signings, or at the end of it at the latest. I’d rather have enthusiastic and talented kids playing and learning for the future than players who realistically aren’t going to improve and are part of the problem rather than the solution.

In terms of coaching, we need to bite the bullet and give HKR what they want for TS and DM now, because the changes cannot happen soon enough for us. TS needs to be given the contract he wants and DM still has so much to learn that another 4 years under Tony will turn out to be a blessing. If Tony won’t come then we need a coach with absolutely no connection to the club previously so they don’t carry any baggage. They then get to call the whole coaching side of the club, and appoint who they want so we have a highly skilled and focused coaching organisation, not the half arsed bunch we have now.

I’d play the following when everyone is fit for the rest of this season. Others can come in when we have injuries.

1. Walker (we need to know if ha has it or not).
2. Fusitua (no point bringing him here if he ain’t going to make a difference).
3. Newman (the best Centre prospect at the club).
4. Broadbent (again we need to know what he can do).
5. Handley (he’s made the position his own).
6. Austin (we have no other realistic option, but I wouldn’t renew him).
7. Sezar (but he gets told that unless we see a big improvement he’s gone).
8. Mik (playing in not more than 20 minute bursts).
9. Leeming (can’t believe he’s captain… he’s our best shot at the moment).
10. Tetevano (again in 20 minute bursts, he must start making an impact or he’s gone).
11. Martin (mainly for his goalkicking, but must be much more dynamic with the ball)
12. Bentley (he’s had a very slow start, but is very capable and we need to see it)
13. Smith (but not at first receiver, he’s very capable but is making too many mistakes)

14. Prior (plays in 20 minutes spells and must make his presence felt)
15. Holroyd (the best (only?) Prop prospect we have)
16. Johnson (when fit, he can be the best hooker at the club, Myler when he’s injured)
17. Gannon (very raw but what a prospect, he needs 1-2-1 coaching but will be a great)


You’ve then got players like O’Connor, Tindall, Walters who are close, and Myler who must be kept around to fill the inevitable gaps that come from injuries. Most of the rest can / should be moved on.

What would you do?

Brilliant post, agree with everything.

On the players mentioned we need to let go, most of them are out of contract end of season and have a youngster ready to replace them, so thats a blessing.

Briscoe gone - Tindall 3rd choice wing with potential to be more
Mellor gone - Walters backup 2nd row with potential to be more
Dwyer gone - Johnson first 17 hooker, already better imo
Thompson gone - New, big NRL prop needed, using the money saved on these 4 contracts, should be able to afford good quality

Do everything we can to try and offload Suttcliffe and Donaldson, cant believe we actually changed Suttcliffes mind to stay, such a basic player.

Martin and Austin also out of contract so lots of quota places and cap for a new coach to work with.

We need to trim the squad of numbers, use the wages saved on fewer but better quality players and back up with our best youngsters. It pains me watching Corey Hall doing so well, im delighted for him, but Broadbents better and cant get a look in because of our love affair with 2 donkeys who've barley got a centre attribute between them.

Agreed on the coaching, the only familiar face acceptable to me would be Smith on a good length contract, im leaning towards a total fresh start with no previous links, but wouldnt complain at Smith, he's atleast got a long and impressive CV as a head coach and fits what iv just said about how i want us to shape our squad. If Danny comes with him as assistant, im good with that, he cant be any worse than Long, but not with the idea of him taking over any time soon.

Re: The Club in general : Sun Mar 27, 2022 4:57 pm  

batleyrhino wrote:

So now the dust is settling on yet another totally inept performance, it’s time to look at what we can do in the short term to fix things up. I’d start with the defence, if we make ourselves harder to score against we will be “in” every game we play. Defence is about three things, technique, communication and attitude. Working on technique can take time, but attitude and communication should be easy fixes, assuming the players see a future with the club.

We need to make it totally transparent that some players don’t have a future at the club, and start playing the slightly more experienced younger players together to improve the attitude and culture at the club. It’s not time to drop the young ones in, but we have a clutch of 19-23 year olds that should either be playing or leaving to show they can make it or make room for the next batch. I’d be looking at getting them enough game time so they are battle hardened for next season.

We need to find ways to ship out players like Briscoe, Sutcliffe, Donaldson, Thompson, Dwyer, Mellor either during the season to create space for new signings, or at the end of it at the latest. I’d rather have enthusiastic and talented kids playing and learning for the future than players who realistically aren’t going to improve and are part of the problem rather than the solution.

In terms of coaching, we need to bite the bullet and give HKR what they want for TS and DM now, because the changes cannot happen soon enough for us. TS needs to be given the contract he wants and DM still has so much to learn that another 4 years under Tony will turn out to be a blessing. If Tony won’t come then we need a coach with absolutely no connection to the club previously so they don’t carry any baggage. They then get to call the whole coaching side of the club, and appoint who they want so we have a highly skilled and focused coaching organisation, not the half arsed bunch we have now.

I’d play the following when everyone is fit for the rest of this season. Others can come in when we have injuries.

1. Walker (we need to know if ha has it or not).
2. Fusitua (no point bringing him here if he ain’t going to make a difference).
3. Newman (the best Centre prospect at the club).
4. Broadbent (again we need to know what he can do).
5. Handley (he’s made the position his own).
6. Austin (we have no other realistic option, but I wouldn’t renew him).
7. Sezar (but he gets told that unless we see a big improvement he’s gone).
8. Mik (playing in not more than 20 minute bursts).
9. Leeming (can’t believe he’s captain… he’s our best shot at the moment).
10. Tetevano (again in 20 minute bursts, he must start making an impact or he’s gone).
11. Martin (mainly for his goalkicking, but must be much more dynamic with the ball)
12. Bentley (he’s had a very slow start, but is very capable and we need to see it)
13. Smith (but not at first receiver, he’s very capable but is making too many mistakes)

14. Prior (plays in 20 minutes spells and must make his presence felt)
15. Holroyd (the best (only?) Prop prospect we have)
16. Johnson (when fit, he can be the best hooker at the club, Myler when he’s injured)
17. Gannon (very raw but what a prospect, he needs 1-2-1 coaching but will be a great)


You’ve then got players like O’Connor, Tindall, Walters who are close, and Myler who must be kept around to fill the inevitable gaps that come from injuries. Most of the rest can / should be moved on.

What would you do?

A really good post.D keeps you in the game but you need some x factor to win them.Maybe l would bench Cam Smith due to his errors,and put in O'Connor.I know this will not be popular but we should have at least 2 overseas spots available particularly one of them should replace Prior.Won't he be 35 this year,I think we just need a couple of offloading props 30 yrs or below who could do more mins if necessary.Hope Johnson comes to fruition but we have been there with McShane,Hood,Robbie Ward,all touted students of Buderus .With regards to Dwyer you'll never see the best of him behind a beaten pack.

Re: The Club in general : Sun Mar 27, 2022 6:26 pm  

We need more motivation in the form of club acronyms. What does it take to be a Rhino:
R espect
H umble
I nspirational
N oligable
(as) O ne
S side before self

Whoop

Re: The Club in general : Sun Mar 27, 2022 7:11 pm  

batleyrhino wrote:

So now the dust is settling on yet another totally inept performance, it’s time to look at what we can do in the short term to fix things up. I’d start with the defence, if we make ourselves harder to score against we will be “in” every game we play. Defence is about three things, technique, communication and attitude. Working on technique can take time, but attitude and communication should be easy fixes, assuming the players see a future with the club.

We need to make it totally transparent that some players don’t have a future at the club, and start playing the slightly more experienced younger players together to improve the attitude and culture at the club. It’s not time to drop the young ones in, but we have a clutch of 19-23 year olds that should either be playing or leaving to show they can make it or make room for the next batch. I’d be looking at getting them enough game time so they are battle hardened for next season.

We need to find ways to ship out players like Briscoe, Sutcliffe, Donaldson, Thompson, Dwyer, Mellor either during the season to create space for new signings, or at the end of it at the latest. I’d rather have enthusiastic and talented kids playing and learning for the future than players who realistically aren’t going to improve and are part of the problem rather than the solution.

In terms of coaching, we need to bite the bullet and give HKR what they want for TS and DM now, because the changes cannot happen soon enough for us. TS needs to be given the contract he wants and DM still has so much to learn that another 4 years under Tony will turn out to be a blessing. If Tony won’t come then we need a coach with absolutely no connection to the club previously so they don’t carry any baggage. They then get to call the whole coaching side of the club, and appoint who they want so we have a highly skilled and focused coaching organisation, not the half arsed bunch we have now.

I’d play the following when everyone is fit for the rest of this season. Others can come in when we have injuries.

1. Walker (we need to know if ha has it or not).
2. Fusitua (no point bringing him here if he ain’t going to make a difference).
3. Newman (the best Centre prospect at the club).
4. Broadbent (again we need to know what he can do).
5. Handley (he’s made the position his own).
6. Austin (we have no other realistic option, but I wouldn’t renew him).
7. Sezar (but he gets told that unless we see a big improvement he’s gone).
8. Mik (playing in not more than 20 minute bursts).
9. Leeming (can’t believe he’s captain… he’s our best shot at the moment).
10. Tetevano (again in 20 minute bursts, he must start making an impact or he’s gone).
11. Martin (mainly for his goalkicking, but must be much more dynamic with the ball)
12. Bentley (he’s had a very slow start, but is very capable and we need to see it)
13. Smith (but not at first receiver, he’s very capable but is making too many mistakes)

14. Prior (plays in 20 minutes spells and must make his presence felt)
15. Holroyd (the best (only?) Prop prospect we have)
16. Johnson (when fit, he can be the best hooker at the club, Myler when he’s injured)
17. Gannon (very raw but what a prospect, he needs 1-2-1 coaching but will be a great)


You’ve then got players like O’Connor, Tindall, Walters who are close, and Myler who must be kept around to fill the inevitable gaps that come from injuries. Most of the rest can / should be moved on.

What would you do?

Agreed

Re: The Club in general : Sun Mar 27, 2022 8:30 pm  

batleyrhino wrote:

{SNIP}

What would you do?

Give you the DoR job instead of Agar...

Re: The Club in general : Mon Mar 28, 2022 7:39 am  

Really good post above. Short terms we have limited options, unless we can move some people out and get some people in then we need to get a new coach in and try and build some confidence, performance and structure for the following year.

End of season is a big one for me as we have a lot of people OOC and some others we need to try and move, we need to start that process now.

From OOC

Austin - gone, attitude and type of player just not right. If not good enough for wire then not good enough for us.
Briscoe - gone, has nothing left
Dwyer - gone, symptomatic of why we are in trouble, it’s all just a bit off the cuff with no discipline.
Martin - gone, just doesn’t do enough for me, doesn’t have great size, great hands, doesn’t bang in D
Mellor - just not good enough
Mustapha - gone, just not big enough I am afraid
Thompson - gone, old and not good enough

From those remaining, we should be looking to do the following

Prior - a year too far, retire and back to Aus
Tetevano - thanks Zane but just hasn’t worked, back to Aus
Sezer - no thanks, appreciate we may have no takers but we can hope
Donaldson - not good enough
Sutcliffe - not good enough
Fusitua - undecided, I just don’t think he is what we need and I don’t think he will ever stay fit

Hope to extend O’Connor and Broadbent

That leaves you with

1. Myler and Walker
2. Fusitua and Tindall
3. Newman and Simpson
4. Broadbent and Edwards
5. Handley
6. ?
7. ? and Sinfield
8. Mik and ?
9. Leeming and Johnson
10. Holroyd and ?
11. Bentley and Walters
12. ? and Gannon
13. Smith and O’Connor and field


As a minimum you need to bring in

2 Front line props, I would love English from Hudds and Marty T from NRL for a year or maybe Taukeiaho
2 younger Uk props, I would say Dupree and Scurr
1 big powerful back row from the NRL maybe somebody like Luke Garner, not sure we could get Tariq Sims
Two halves, obv this is the hardest position to get, the most expensive positions. If Sezer had to stay for another year then you would hope with a better platform his game would pick up. Bottom line is I just don’t like his attitude. Who wants a player who only wants to play when his team are on top.
If fusitua left then we would need a good quality outside back who could play centre and wing, somebody like Hiroti from the sharks but again not sure we would get him.

I haven’t named halves as I just really don’t know who we could get. I appreciate I am almost playing football manager above but I do feel we need to make some fairly deep and significant changes, we need to massively change the front row, both numbers and the type of players we bring in. Back row needs to change a little in we need, not so fussed on offloader, much rather have a straight up ground making or line bending back rower. Obv half backs are huge, maybe some older heads and hope sinfield grows into it over next couple of years. Either way it is a huge off season and at the moment not convinced Gary, Agar if he comes back can do the necessary.

Re: The Club in general : Mon Mar 28, 2022 9:38 am  

Wow, depressing thread very reminiscent of RAB as the wheels were starting to come off, squad weakening, crowds dropping, the club 'at a cross roads'

Hope you can sort yourselves out and the ship steadies. As much as I'd like to see THE derby back a spell 'rebuilding' in the Championship isn't the way to go.

Mellor and Donaldson weren't good enough for Bradford back in the day God knows why you picked them up but once you start signing, regularly, from teams below you you join the very rapidly.

Good Luck!

Re: The Club in general : Mon Mar 28, 2022 10:07 am  

This was obviously coming. That squad has reduced in quality year on year. We are now far worse playing staff wise than when Murray came to the club in '98.

I never thought McDermott would take the club forward and handle the transition as senior players retired and he didn't. It's no mystery where we are, under McD we had most of our worst seasons overall in SL in terms of consistency week in week out. He squeezed what was left out of the likes of Peacock, Mags etc. (or more accurately they showed what born winners and competitors they were and refused to go quietly) but it was clear when those guys ll finally hung up their boots there was nothing in terms of league form to suggest we were going to be competitive . McD laid the foundations of where we are now and Agar finished the job. However, ultimately it's people at the club (you know who I mean) who let this situation develop in the first place. Has Gary lost the passion for it?

This is the most mediocre side I've seen occupy Leeds shirts since I first started watching the team back in 1982. And that includes the sides that barely avoided relegation. We were completely skint in the 90's when Dean Bell had to pull on a shirt, we don't have that excuse now.

This has been like this too long now to believe that it's a blip or a rebuilding phase. There is something more fundamental that needs changing at the top of the organization. Something fresh and committed, a good coach coming in for two years might save us from complete humiliation but he's not going to rebuild this wreckage.

Re: The Club in general : Mon Mar 28, 2022 12:27 pm  

At the start of this thread I suggested GH needs to step aside - he has been superb for Leeds since he came but we all reach a level of ability and we have to admit that it is time to give way to new ideas. The club is limited to his ability and that is real problem for Leeds at the moment. No successor has been groomed or identified - that is poor for any organisation. Nepotism or positive discrimination e.g. JJB gets an assistant coaching role with no elite level coaching experience - sends out the message that this isn't a meritocracy its a mates club.

The coaching appointment will be compromised by the need to retain the likes of JJB - very unlikely GH is going to give a coach free reign to appoint his own people. Plus they will have to work with Agar as DOR!! Furner went because the club didn't like some home truths - which are there for all to see - which if the rumours are true JJB objected to and deliberately under-mind Furner.

It will be both interesting to see who the coach is and how long it takes to find one.