Re: James Segeyaro : Sun Dec 11, 2016 9:19 pm  

William Eve wrote:

You could certainly argue a very strong case for decline as a result of mismanagement.

There has also been a managed decline which is most evident when you consider the salary cap in SL. This has fallen in real terms (accounting for inflation) by around 40% since the late 1990's and by around 30% during the last decade alone.

Some SL club chairmen have also argued for a lowering of the cap. I believe GH himself is on record somewhere of arguing for a lowering of the salary cap?

There's other stuff going on which SL management has no control over like the recession and the value of sterling against the Aussie dollar which has also had a huge effect on the number and quality of signings from down under.

However, a state of managed decline is where the game resides with little knowledge or know how of how to turn things around as clubs do little more than hang around for their next handout from Sky. The fans meanwhile are being sold turds rolled in sugar.

Can't argue with much of that. Clubs don't generate enough income, but can continue to run at lower cost, so don't speculate to accumulate.

The salary cap and sky contracts mean there's little advantage to be gained by earning more than is needed to pay players.

The result is that when the best competition is paying way more money, it's a no brainer for the top talent to leave

Re: James Segeyaro : Mon Dec 12, 2016 7:55 am  

William Eve wrote:

You could certainly argue a very strong case for decline as a result of mismanagement.

There has also been a managed decline which is most evident when you consider the salary cap in SL. This has fallen in real terms (accounting for inflation) by around 40% since the late 1990's and by around 30% during the last decade alone.

Some SL club chairmen have also argued for a lowering of the cap. I believe GH himself is on record somewhere of arguing for a lowering of the salary cap?

There's other stuff going on which SL management has no control over like the recession and the value of sterling against the Aussie dollar which has also had a huge effect on the number and quality of signings from down under.

However, a state of managed decline is where the game resides with little knowledge or know how of how to turn things around as clubs do little more than hang around for their next handout from Sky. The fans meanwhile are being sold turds rolled in sugar.

A good summary of where things are, and have been going for a good few years. It's tough to see how things turn around from here and it's more realistic to think that SL will continue to slide in the wrong direction.

Re: James Segeyaro : Mon Dec 12, 2016 8:33 am  

Biff Tannen wrote:

A good summary of where things are, and have been going for a good few years. It's tough to see how things turn around from here and it's more realistic to think that SL will continue to slide in the wrong direction.

Mid 1970's and early 1980's were pretty grim, during that era when there was an international ban on recruiting overseas players from down under and vice versa. I'm of the opinion this current era is a match for those grim times, at the very least.

There doesn't appear to be any options to turn things around. The sport seems to be waiting for a magic solution to come along but in the meantime, just plod along with the downgrades year upon year.

If Sky do ever withdraw their financial backing and the game has to fend for itself, it will return to its former semi-pro status with perhaps a handful of the bigger clubs managing to maintain full time pro status courtesy of a wealthy backer. There will be several dodgy specimens with questionable business interests among that lot getting involved as well

Re: James Segeyaro : Mon Dec 12, 2016 8:53 am  

I too fear that RL will wither on the vine.
You could argue that now that the other code is fully professional there is no longer any place for a second code of rugby.

Re: James Segeyaro : Mon Dec 12, 2016 9:01 am  

William Eve wrote:

If Sky do ever withdraw their financial backing and the game has to fend for itself, it will return to its former semi-pro status with perhaps a handful of the bigger clubs managing to maintain full time pro status courtesy of a wealthy backer.

Sky withdrawing their support is a sobering thought, isn't it? I wonder if clubs could support themselves and if the players would be happy to become part-timers on a significantly lower wage. I very much doubt it.

Arguably, we're held to ransom by Sky. All the more reason that the RFL should be doing everything they can to support the clubs and ensure that, when big name overseas players do sign (and in doing so improve the game), they see out their contracts.

Re: James Segeyaro : Mon Dec 12, 2016 9:04 am  

William Eve wrote:

Biff Tannen wrote:

A good summary of where things are, and have been going for a good few years. It's tough to see how things turn around from here and it's more realistic to think that SL will continue to slide in the wrong direction.

Mid 1970's and early 1980's were pretty grim, during that era when there was an international ban on recruiting overseas players from down under and vice versa. I'm of the opinion this current era is a match for those grim times, at the very least.

There doesn't appear to be any options to turn things around. The sport seems to be waiting for a magic solution to come along but in the meantime, just plod along with the downgrades year upon year.

If Sky do ever withdraw their financial backing and the game has to fend for itself, it will return to its former semi-pro status with perhaps a handful of the bigger clubs managing to maintain full time pro status courtesy of a wealthy backer. There will be several dodgy specimens with questionable business interests among that lot getting involved as well

Completely agree on all points.

Luckily for RL in this country, Sky have had a bit of a wobble and have lost the rights to Rugby Union and a lot of top level football, so I think that should keep them interested in Super League for the foreseeable. They do tend to see RL as a 'filler' sport though, so if/when they regain the rights to more top level football and RU, we will see RL shunted to even more obscure time slots and away from the main channels to red button/online formats. This could also be the time they decide to drop the price they'll pay for RL, and the worry is, what serious competition will be out there to bump up the rights value - particularly with the current level of rugby being played in Super League.
Name 1 current super league player who has the same sort of exposure or national profile as Schofield, Hanley, Offiah, Jonathan Davies.... The only RL players from the last decade or so with any sort of profile are Burgess and Farrell (both got more exposure due to RU) and Sinfield (Sustained success, but more the SPOTY nomination which was after he retired from RL anyway).

The profile of the sport is at an all time low nationally. BIG BIG problems!

Re: James Segeyaro : Mon Dec 12, 2016 9:30 am  

The static salary cap is really crippling us at the moment.

A quick Google shows £1.8m in 2000 (I can't remember the exact salary cap at the time) is £2.82m now.

The NRL Salary Cap is $7m in 2017, which at todays rate converts to £4.15m.

Union's Premiership will be £7m I believe next season (1718).

Re: James Segeyaro : Mon Dec 12, 2016 9:48 am  

DGM wrote:

The static salary cap is really crippling us at the moment.

A quick Google shows £1.8m in 2000 (I can't remember the exact salary cap at the time) is £2.82m now.

The NRL Salary Cap is $7m in 2017, which at todays rate converts to £4.15m.

Union's Premiership will be £7m I believe next season (1718).

And the NRL cap is scheduled to be raised to around $10m in 2018. The problem we have over here is that the sport simply can't afford to raise the cap - there's currently not enough money in the game here to support it, the issues run much deeper and there is no short term or quick fix.

The current position in the NRL is that the clubs will receive funding of 130% of whatever their cap is from the NRL (though the NRL are trying to lower this now). Our clubs simply don't get that level of financial support and most appear incapable of raising enough funds to support an increased cap.

Re: James Segeyaro : Mon Dec 12, 2016 10:09 am  

It seems to me that the only hope is twofold:
first, that folk get fed up of seeing overseas mercanaries providing most if not all of the players in the Premieer Legue - Sky's soccer viewing figures are falling.
Secondly, that BT Sport or another TV provider competes with sky for the next era of superleague.

Re: James Segeyaro : Mon Dec 12, 2016 10:22 am  

Old Feller wrote:

It seems to me that the only hope is twofold:
first, that folk get fed up of seeing overseas mercanaries providing most if not all of the players in the Premieer Legue - Sky's soccer viewing figures are falling.
Secondly, that BT Sport or another TV provider competes with sky for the next era of superleague.

True, but with BT coming in as a competitor to Sky, and for the first time it looks reasonably serious competition, Price hikes for TV deals will continue to Sky rocket (pardon the pun ), no matter how much people think the money in the game is at vulgar levels. SKY have already shown they are prepared to cut other sports adrift in the desperate efforts to hog most of the football, they have released a lot of the Tennis package they had and the Ashes cricket has gone to BT, so the worry has to be that they would do the same to RL next time the renewal comes. Or at least offer us a reduced price as there is no obvious competitor to them for it. It would maybe help if the RFL lobbied the likes of BT to get them bidding off with sky on SL rights but we all know how well the RFL do at selling the game so that is highly unlikely to happen.