Re: WCC : Sat Feb 20, 2016 10:03 am  

What's changed in the last 3 years, surely neither competition has change quality too much?
2012 beat pretty much a full many team
2013 lose by a couple of points to a full Melbourne team, in a game where we actually bombed a couple of tries and was missing Hardaker
2016 SL teams don't have a chance??????

Re: WCC : Sat Feb 20, 2016 10:05 am  

Him wrote:

Yep agree with all that.

I think there is a physical skill deficit too though. Though not as pronounced as some would proclaim, and I think that physical skill deficit is partly a symptom of the mental deficit. I think the NRL is generally more focussed and professional than all but 2 or 3 of the SL clubs. Then add in the big disparity in playing numbers and the generally poor state of the amateur game in this country and I think that pretty much covers why they beat us more often than not.

It's why I disagree with those who say we need to significantly raise the salary cap, as if that will somehow cure the problem. When the problems aren't related to how much players are paid. We need much more money going into clubs infrastructure including back room staff and senior management and we need much more money and focus on revolutionising the amateur game that is still stuck in the 80's.

Do that and I reckon we'll get much closer to beating the Aussies regularly.

The other side of the raising the salary cap argument is if it were increased it would allow SL clubs to attract some top NRL players who will bring their superior skill set that you mentioned for the benefit of the SL paying public (it is after all an entertainment business) and perhaps it would even increase attendances. Also some of the NRL recruits attitude and professionalism would rub off on our younger players leading to an improvement in standards at SL clubs.

Re: WCC : Sat Feb 20, 2016 10:16 am  

We've been worried abut playing youngsters in the halves, yet the Rooster's halves last night were I think 19 & 20 plus they had an 18 year old centre.
There are 2 major differences between us & the Aussies, the length of the off season allowing them much more time to spend on conditioning & skills development & the overall RL infrastructure. Until we address that we will never regularly compete with them at club level.

Re: WCC : Sat Feb 20, 2016 10:50 am  

Seth wrote:

Twice the number of people registered as playing the game in Australia plus the surrounding islands and new Zealand on top of that, is it really a surprise to anyone that our success against them is limited, makes perfect sense to me. Enjoy our competition for what it is, there are still fantastic athletes and for entertainment beats union and football hands down, while in the meantime helping our sport to cast it's net further and on occasion get closer to the southern hemisphere.

That is the last thing the game can do, its what it been doing or 40 years. We can be better. We can beat the aussies. We can be the best and biggest RL nation in the world and we should never stop trying and never accept anything less. 'Good enough', is never good enough.

Re: WCC : Sat Feb 20, 2016 10:53 am  

A few observations to go along side Seth's and other's - The salary cap does have huge influence in terms of pool of top class players available to NRL v SL. Anyone who has spent time in Oz knows that Saturday mornings you will see all green spaces around in the suburbs are sports facilities and are full of youngsters enjoying a session of some sport training, skills sessions etc.- all year round! Parents spend their weekends ferrying kids to and fro. If not on these green bits then they are on the beach doing something else athletic. The kids are not ploughing through mud, freezing their little bums off, crying with pain when they get kicked, get a clod in the eye etc. Our kids are great and our parents, who do stand on the touchline shivering, are great BUT we can never compete with the conditions that our youngsters grow up in, learn skills and tactics in etc, and if they make it to the top in SL it is a special thing. In Oz it is not so surprising. In the UK the majority of youngsters, especially south of Yorkshire, of course, are probably either still in bed, playing with their phones or ipads or their interest in sport is confined to the overpaid, shamsters chasing a round ball around. This country's obsession with soccer, the size of the crowds, the vast amount of money invested in advertising, players, TV rights, the high focus on any related story etc etc is staggeringly incomprehensible. The virtual ignoring of RL, by comparison, is another factor.
Generally we are not on a level playing field with NRL except for the passion and desire shown by our best and most talented. Sadly Saints forgot that last night and KC's delusion probably added to that. He did, after all, look and sound as if he was about to open up at the Car Boot Sale!

Re: WCC : Sat Feb 20, 2016 11:03 am  

leedsnsouths wrote:

What's changed in the last 3 years, surely neither competition has change quality too much?
2012 beat pretty much a full many team
2013 lose by a couple of points to a full Melbourne team, in a game where we actually bombed a couple of tries and was missing Hardaker
2016 SL teams don't have a chance??????

It is pretty obvious - the quality of NRL player coming to SL has dropped off significantly due to our inability to compete financially. As a result the overall standard of the league has dropped - the reverse has happened in the NRL i.e. retaining of more quality and an increase in the overall standard of the league. Simple really.

Re: WCC : Sat Feb 20, 2016 11:04 am  

Him wrote:

Yep agree with all that.

I think there is a physical skill deficit too though. Though not as pronounced as some would proclaim, and I think that physical skill deficit is partly a symptom of the mental deficit. I think the NRL is generally more focussed and professional than all but 2 or 3 of the SL clubs. Then add in the big disparity in playing numbers and the generally poor state of the amateur game in this country and I think that pretty much covers why they beat us more often than not.

It's why I disagree with those who say we need to significantly raise the salary cap, as if that will somehow cure the problem. When the problems aren't related to how much players are paid. We need much more money going into clubs infrastructure including back room staff and senior management and we need much more money and focus on revolutionising the amateur game that is still stuck in the 80's.

Do that and I reckon we'll get much closer to beating the Aussies regularly.

Give Leeds Sam and Tom and Wigan George Burgess, give Saints Graham back, Let leeds bring back Hodgson instead of bringing in Falloon and Saints keeping eastmond instead of bringing in Burns and we would be a lot closer now.

Makes no sense for the game to be spending hundreds of thousands of pounds on coaches, facilities, and wages to develop a young player who leaves before his peak to go and strengthen our competitors.

Re: WCC : Sat Feb 20, 2016 11:14 am  

leedsnsouths wrote:

What's changed in the last 3 years, surely neither competition has change quality too much?
2012 beat pretty much a full many team
2013 lose by a couple of points to a full Melbourne team, in a game where we actually bombed a couple of tries and was missing Hardaker
2016 SL teams don't have a chance??????

About 2mil extra cap has been added to the oz cap in the meantime

Re: WCC : Sat Feb 20, 2016 11:23 am  

loiner81 wrote:

Deary me, what an embarrassing post, even by your standards. You do realise you just proved Printer's point?

If the Aussies are so far ahead why have they only won 6 of the last 12 WCC matches? Were they not trying in the other 6?
Leeds have been in 6 WCC games, winning 3 of them. How the hell did that happen against such a superior competition?

The last time we, England, played the Aussies in a game that "matters" we were a finger tip away from knocking them out of the 4N and putting us in the finals. And that's being polite because we all know that try should've been given

Unlike you I'm going on Sunday to support my club and hopefully watch them record a memorable win against the NRL's best. That probably won't happen but to be fair we're missing more than half of our GF winning team whilst the Aussies are playing the same 17. If that was reversed then we'd all be expecting a comfortable Leeds win and you'd be spouting some garbage about the Aussies not taking it seriously and only sending half a team over....

Of course it'll be nice to JT play again but you sound like a little girl saying he's the reason you're going. I'll look out for you jumping up and down on the spot, clapping like a seal and screaming, like a Belieber, every time he gets the ball.

Have they not won the last 6 WCC challenge games or is that an illusion - its 2012 since a SL club won a game in this format - so let's try and add some perspective and not ancient history - what happened in 2015/16 is far more relevant than what happened in 2012 would you not agree.

All the advantages are placed in the favour of the SL side yet in recent times they have failed to deliver - maybe it just that the Aussies have been very lucky - the last six times? Sometimes you have to accept they are better. They are better because they perform the simple skills so much better and faster than we do - this is not rocket science.

You are already making you excuses - so I would suggest a case of kettle and pot here!!

The last time we played the Aussies in a game that really mattered they beat us at Wembley in WC.

Unlike you I see some pleasure in seeing a sportsman that is right at the very pinnacle of the game - if Lionel Messi was playing against Leeds Utd - unlikely I know - I would go and watch and I have no interest in soccer whatsoever. Great players are what sport is about, its what creates interest and drives participation - ignore their importance but I would say you are wrong to do so. Much rather admire a truly great player than get excited about one that is a pale imitation of the real deal.

Re: WCC : Sat Feb 20, 2016 11:35 am  

SmokeyTA wrote:

That is the last thing the game can do, its what it been doing or 40 years. We can be better. We can beat the aussies. We can be the best and biggest RL nation in the world and we should never stop trying and never accept anything less. 'Good enough', is never good enough.

Maybe I didn't phrase myself very well. Yes we should strive to be the best, my life's work has been at the very centre of contributing to that focus. I do however feel that RL fans are too quick to put our game down, it is possible to challenge it's weaknesses whilst also enjoying the product we currently have and being realistic about the comparative infrastructure challenges we face (not least having a player pool less than half the size of Australia, while the new Zealanders get to play in the intensity of the NRL every week).

We are always going to be behind the 8 ball due to the nations obsession with football, but there is (and should be) a great deal more we can do to engage more players at all levels and develop the athletes we have better at an earlier age.