FORUMS FORUMS






RLFANS.COM
Celebrating
25 years service to
the Rugby League
Community!

   WWW.RLFANS.COM • View topic - General Chat | Relegation & Who's To Blame? Thread
User avatar
RankPostsTeam
International Star5564
JoinedServiceReputation
Mar 03 20177 years52nd
OnlineLast PostLast Page
12th May 24 16:2712th May 24 16:20LINK
Milestone Posts
5000
10000
Milestone Years
0510 1520 2530

Re: Relegation : Wed Apr 10, 2019 11:50 am  
BrisbaneRhino wrote:
We certainly can't wait too long or who the coach is will become irrelevant.


Agreed
RankPostsTeam
Club Captain320No
Team
Selected
JoinedServiceReputation
May 10 20168 years308th
OnlineLast PostLast Page
31st Aug 22 13:3026th Aug 22 12:36LINK
Milestone Posts
250
500
Milestone Years
0510 1520 2530

Re: Relegation : Wed Apr 10, 2019 9:59 pm  
Let’s be honest the powers at be wouldn’t let Leeds be relegated. It’d turn into a 14 team super league.
Him 
User avatar
RankPostsTeam
International Board Member14970No
Team
Selected
JoinedServiceReputation
Jun 19 200222 yearsN/A
OnlineLast PostLast Page
16th Nov 21 22:467th Nov 21 09:30LINK
Milestone Posts
10000
15000
Milestone Years
0510 1520 2530
Location
Campaigning for a deep attacking line

Re: Relegation : Wed Apr 10, 2019 11:12 pm  
At some point we have to go back to licensing.

The point of (or at least one of the major reasons for) the salary cap is to spread the playing talent and make the league more equal than it would be.

Eventually you reach a point where the salary cap combined with P&R is actually weakening rather than strengthening the league because it’s already evened out the quality so there’s relatively little difference. At that point if you relegate a club and promote a new one you’re weakening the league not giving a new club a chance as P&R is supposed to do.

For instance if the bottom NRL club were relegated and they were replaced by one of their 2nd tier clubs I don’t see how anyone could view that as strengthening the competition.

So eventually once the competition has been evened out by the salary cap we have to get rid of one of either the cap or P&R.
User avatar
RankPostsTeam
International Board Member9565No
Team
Selected
JoinedServiceReputation
May 08 200222 yearsN/A
OnlineLast PostLast Page
12th Dec 19 13:0211th Dec 19 22:00LINK
Milestone Posts
5000
10000
Milestone Years
0510 1520 2530
Location
10 mins walk from Suncorp Stadium

Re: Relegation : Thu Apr 11, 2019 6:15 am  
That's not quite what happens though is it? If a side is relegated most of their usable players end up with other lower table clubs including the promoted side, meaning almost the same set of players just at different clubs.

Whilst the cap may be aimed at levelling the playing field, its never going to because the gap between 'big' and 'small' clubs in financial terms is enormous. Even in the supposedly more equal NRL, some teams are just bigger than others, and from a commercial perspective far more important - the Broncos dwarf every team in almost all financial dimensions (in some ways the gap is even bigger here because its hidden by the TV deal which enables all clubs to get close to spending the full cap).

Failure to recognise these disparities is a mistake. I still think it was a huge mistake to let the Bulls fall out of SL and end up where they are. They didn't get everything right, but they could bring crowds that are just a dream for most SL sides, and if we're being honest SL lost something when they went. Replacing the Bulls with the likes of Leigh or Widnes isn't like for like in anyway at all, regardless of how 'fair' it is. Even in a player development sense they were immense - half the Brits in the NRL came through their Academy.

Given the current setup and teams in SL and below, there are really only 2 teams P&R helps - Leigh and Widnes. If the game was purely about financial strength it would be a continual yo-yo between them Salford and London. If we moved back to franchising Toronto, Toulouse and London would all stand a much better chance of getting in than through P&R, assuming they have the initial financial backing required.
Him 
User avatar
RankPostsTeam
International Board Member14970No
Team
Selected
JoinedServiceReputation
Jun 19 200222 yearsN/A
OnlineLast PostLast Page
16th Nov 21 22:467th Nov 21 09:30LINK
Milestone Posts
10000
15000
Milestone Years
0510 1520 2530
Location
Campaigning for a deep attacking line

Re: Relegation : Thu Apr 11, 2019 6:48 am  
BrisbaneRhino wrote:
That's not quite what happens though is it? If a side is relegated most of their usable players end up with other lower table clubs including the promoted side, meaning almost the same set of players just at different clubs.

Whilst the cap may be aimed at levelling the playing field, its never going to because the gap between 'big' and 'small' clubs in financial terms is enormous. Even in the supposedly more equal NRL, some teams are just bigger than others, and from a commercial perspective far more important - the Broncos dwarf every team in almost all financial dimensions (in some ways the gap is even bigger here because its hidden by the TV deal which enables all clubs to get close to spending the full cap).

Failure to recognise these disparities is a mistake. I still think it was a huge mistake to let the Bulls fall out of SL and end up where they are. They didn't get everything right, but they could bring crowds that are just a dream for most SL sides, and if we're being honest SL lost something when they went. Replacing the Bulls with the likes of Leigh or Widnes isn't like for like in anyway at all, regardless of how 'fair' it is. Even in a player development sense they were immense - half the Brits in the NRL came through their Academy.

Given the current setup and teams in SL and below, there are really only 2 teams P&R helps - Leigh and Widnes. If the game was purely about financial strength it would be a continual yo-yo between them Salford and London. If we moved back to franchising Toronto, Toulouse and London would all stand a much better chance of getting in than through P&R, assuming they have the initial financial backing required.

I agree the players end up going to the newly promoted side but then you’ve just massively hit one clubs infrastructure and planning with relegation whilst the new club has a lesser infrastructure naturally because they were in a lower division. So it’s weakened the league and the sport.

There’s an argument for P&R when one club is so significantly worse than the others but when it’s close between 3 or 4 clubs then it’s just weakening the league.

I agree the cap can’t fully even everything out but it at least stops rich clubs stockpiling players and gives poorer clubs a better chance than they would have had.

But I think we have to move back to licensing. Just licensing done better than the last attempt. And then stick with it. We need to say we’re going with licensing for 15 years and then review after that.
User avatar
RankPostsTeam
International Star5564
JoinedServiceReputation
Mar 03 20177 years52nd
OnlineLast PostLast Page
12th May 24 16:2712th May 24 16:20LINK
Milestone Posts
5000
10000
Milestone Years
0510 1520 2530

Re: Relegation : Thu Apr 11, 2019 7:08 am  
Him wrote:
At some point we have to go back to licensing.

The point of (or at least one of the major reasons for) the salary cap is to spread the playing talent and make the league more equal than it would be.

Eventually you reach a point where the salary cap combined with P&R is actually weakening rather than strengthening the league because it’s already evened out the quality so there’s relatively little difference. At that point if you relegate a club and promote a new one you’re weakening the league not giving a new club a chance as P&R is supposed to do.

For instance if the bottom NRL club were relegated and they were replaced by one of their 2nd tier clubs I don’t see how anyone could view that as strengthening the competition.

So eventually once the competition has been evened out by the salary cap we have to get rid of one of either the cap or P&R.


Absolutely bang on. In the current system SL has been weakened for me. That's not just donwn to P&R I know but it has played a sizeable part for me
TOMCAT 
User avatar
RankPostsTeam
International Board Member1988
JoinedServiceReputation
Feb 20 200222 yearsN/A
OnlineLast PostLast Page
4th May 21 12:4617th Dec 20 14:09LINK
Milestone Posts
1000
2500
Milestone Years
0510 1520 2530
Location
Happy Valley

Re: Relegation : Thu Apr 11, 2019 10:55 am  
wakefield1990 wrote:
Let’s be honest the powers at be wouldn’t let Leeds be relegated. It’d turn into a 14 team super league.


Just like the way they didn't let Bradford go down?
User avatar
RankPostsTeam
International Board Member9320
JoinedServiceReputation
Feb 26 200222 years17th
OnlineLast PostLast Page
12th May 24 20:3512th May 24 20:03LINK
Milestone Posts
5000
10000
Milestone Years
0510 1520 2530
Location
anywhere, literally...
Signature
It's not how much talent you've got, it's what you do with it that counts.

Re: Relegation : Thu Apr 11, 2019 11:12 am  
The future has to be a return to Licensing, it’s the only long term sustainable way. We can’t have a system that means something as unpredictable as a run of injuries to key players could be the thing that effectively finishes a club. There has to be a safety net, along with prudent and practical financial control.

There’s nothing stopping the RFL setting the criteria for acceptance of a license and publicising it so any club from outside SL could apply to join by a certain date each year.
RankPostsTeam
Moderator39390
JoinedServiceReputation
Mar 01 200222 years14th
OnlineLast PostLast Page
12th May 24 19:5812th May 24 16:39LINK
Milestone Posts
30000
40000
Milestone Years
0510 1520 2530
Moderator

Re: Relegation : Thu Apr 11, 2019 11:44 am  
TOMCAT wrote:
Just like the way they didn't let Bradford go down?



Yeah but they were expecting Bradford to go bust, totally different situation
RankPostsTeam
Club Captain320No
Team
Selected
JoinedServiceReputation
May 10 20168 years308th
OnlineLast PostLast Page
31st Aug 22 13:3026th Aug 22 12:36LINK
Milestone Posts
250
500
Milestone Years
0510 1520 2530

Re: Relegation : Thu Apr 11, 2019 12:45 pm  
Fantastic Mr Catpiss wrote:
Yeah but they were expecting Bradford to go bust, totally different situation


Exactly this. Bradford were in a complete mess financially before they were relegated. Leeds on the other hand are the biggest and most profitable team in SL. For them to be relegated would be a disaster to the sport and not something which the RFL would let happen.
PreviousNext

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Andyleeds08 and 230 guests

REPLY

Subject: 
Message:
   
Please note using apple style emoji's can result in posting failures.
Use the FULL EDITOR to better format content or upload images, be notified of replies etc...

Return to Leeds Rhinos


RLFANS Recent Posts
FORUM
LAST
POST
TOPIC
POSTER
POSTS
Recent
Bradford next
Wollo-Wollo-
137
Recent
Ticket for the final
KevW60349
14
FORUM
LAST
VIEW
TOPIC
POSTER
POSTS
12s
Game - Song Titles
Boss Hog
36355
25s
Rumours thread
FIL
1266
30s
TV games not Wire
scarrie
3026
49s
Squad 2024
faxcar
419
55s
Betting 2024
karetaker
83
58s
DoR - New Coach - Investor & Adam - New signings
Rugby Raider
1214
1m
London Away
Jake the Peg
258
1m
Transfer Talk / Rumour thread V4
KaeruJim
8972
1m
ALL NEW 49ERS ERA LEEDS UTD THREAD
chapylad
1695
1m
Asiata is going to Hull
Jack Gaskell
46
FORUM
NEW
TOPICS
TOPIC
POSTER
POSTS
TODAY
Support today
PopTart
9
TODAY
BBC
wakeytrin
8
TODAY
Ticket for the final
KevW60349
14
TODAY
London Broncos First Win Of 2024 Over Awful Hull FC
RLFANS News
1
TODAY
Semi Final
Hangerman2
7
TODAY
"I didnt see that coming"
Hangerman2
7
TODAY
Catalans Dragons Nil The Rhinos To Go Joint Top
RLFANS News
1
TODAY
Wigan Warriors Sensational Second Forty Crushes Huddersfield Giants
RLFANS News
1
TODAY
Leigh Leopards Destroy Salford Red Devils
RLFANS News
1
TODAY
Leopards Change Their Spots
Leyther in n
5
TODAY
Luke Yates
WYSIWYG2
3
TODAY
Warrington Wolves Frustrate Hull KR As They Go Top
RLFANS News
1
TODAY
Hull fc
Deadcowboys1
2
TODAY
Charnley signs
WYSIWYG2
2
TODAY
Tonights game v HKR
WireWireWire
63
NEWS ITEMS
VIEWS
London Broncos First Win Of 20..
212
Catalans Dragons Nil The Rhino..
291
Wigan Warriors Sensational Sec..
477
Leigh Leopards Destroy Salford..
751
Warrington Wolves Frustrate Hu..
781
Widnes Vikings Win Thriller Ag..
1548
Leigh Leopards and Castleford ..
1538
Simple Rhinos Victory Compound..
1210
Stunning Second Half Sees Wiga..
1291
Leeds Rhinos Battle Hard for W..
3029
Salford Red Devils Battle Hard..
2895
Leigh Leopards Masterclass Des..
3023
Saints Snatch Win With Lomax D..
3449
Wakefield Trinity Too Strong F..
3705
Catalans Dragons Destroy Hull ..
3308
RLFANS Match Centre
Matches on TV
Table 'boards.stats_fixtures' doesn't exist