Board index Super League Leeds Rhinos - southstander.com General Chat | Relegation & Who's To Blame? Thread



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 Post subject: Re: Relegation
PostPosted: Mon Jun 10, 2019 6:36 am 
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Next year would be the perfect time to expand to 14. London have gone really well and it would be a shame if they get relegated. Toronto are going to walk the championship so it looks like they will come up, I would let the team finish top come straight up, no relegation from SL and just move the playoffs in the Championship to 2nd to 6th rather than 1st to
5th, would the existing SL clubs vote for a cut in funding though and would SL dare change the format with less than half the season to go?

I’ve found the repeat fixtures a bit annoying this year TBH

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 Post subject: Re: Relegation
PostPosted: Mon Jun 10, 2019 6:53 am 
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christopher wrote:Next year would be the perfect time to expand to 14. London have gone really well and it would be a shame if they get relegated. Toronto are going to walk the championship so it looks like they will come up, I would let the team finish top come straight up, no relegation from SL and just move the playoffs in the Championship to 2nd to 6th rather than 1st to
5th, would the existing SL clubs vote for a cut in funding though and would SL dare change the format with less than half the season to go?

I’ve found the repeat fixtures a bit annoying this year TBH


Agreed Christopher. The repeat fixtures imo are bad for the sport. Takes the numbers off the crowds takes the edge off the games and makes the game look confusing from the outside.

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 Post subject: Re: Relegation
PostPosted: Mon Jun 10, 2019 7:11 am 
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Those extra games just make SL look like a sport moving in ever decreasing circles. Not enough gate receipts? Simple - play half the comp again.

I know the issues people have with Tornoto - ooh the risk. But they have managed to pay for teams to travel there in a semi-pro competition. That's no small achievement, and vastly more than most clubs do for competitors. The upside potential is also enormous, and dwarfs anything other championship teams could offer.

Personally I'd go for broke and bring in Toronto and Toulouse, and have Bradford, Widnes and Leigh etc fight for the next franchise spot. The conversation re TV deals would be very different with a north American presence, London and a couple of French teams compared to the usual M62 suspects.

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 Post subject: Re: Relegation
PostPosted: Mon Jun 10, 2019 7:27 am 
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In the longer term, for the sport to thrive, it must grow. The only way to do this sustainably is franchising. We basically bottled it last time, and listened to too many people with their own agendas instead of the sport itself as their primary concern. Due to the way that this year is shaping up, with nothing really to choose between London, HKR, Leeds, and then even Wigan, Hudds and Salford all within 4 points of each other, more than half of the league are at risk of relegation (which would be catastrophic for whichever club is concerned) so I would state now that there will be no relegation this year. Then I would promote Toronto as others have said and this group then become franchises for the following season. Any club can join the following year as long as they meet certain playing, structural and commercial criteria, with the potential for one team to be added each year when they meet those criteria.

Imagine in 5 years time you could have a league that looks like this:

Leeds
Saints
Wigan
Warrington
Hull KR
Hull
Wakefield
Salford
London
Toronto
Castleford
Bradford
Leigh
Tolouse
Catalans
Huddersfield

That's 16 teams, with others like New York that could potentially join once they've met the criteria. Some will say that we simply don't have the player pool to support this number of clubs, but without the clubs and no risk of relegation this will be an eternal question. Without the risk of relegation, more kids would get chances and so the player pool grows.

It's the only sustainable way to develop the club game.






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 Post subject: Re: Relegation
PostPosted: Mon Jun 10, 2019 7:30 am 
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batleyrhino wrote:In the longer term, for the sport to thrive, it must grow. The only way to do this sustainably is franchising. We basically bottled it last time, and listened to too many people with their own agendas instead of the sport itself as their primary concern. Due to the way that this year is shaping up, with nothing really to choose between London, HKR, Leeds, and then even Wigan, Hudds and Salford all within 4 points of each other, more than half of the league are at risk of relegation (which would be catastrophic for whichever club is concerned) so I would state now that there will be no relegation this year. Then I would promote Toronto as others have said and this group then become franchises for the following season. Any club can join the following year as long as they meet certain playing, structural and commercial criteria, with the potential for one team to be added each year when they meet those criteria.

Imagine in 5 years time you could have a league that looks like this:

Leeds
Saints
Wigan
Warrington
Hull KR
Hull
Wakefield
Salford
London
Toronto
Castleford
Bradford
Leigh
Tolouse
Catalans
Huddersfield

That's 16 teams, with others like New York that could potentially join once they've met the criteria. Some will say that we simply don't have the player pool to support this number of clubs, but without the clubs and no risk of relegation this will be an eternal question. Without the risk of relegation, more kids would get chances and so the player pool grows.

It's the only sustainable way to develop the club game.


Agreed, look at us this year if we knew we were safe I’m sure we would have seen more youngsters getting game time, that can only be a good thing for the game as a whole

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 Post subject: Re: Relegation
PostPosted: Mon Jun 10, 2019 10:02 am 
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christopher wrote:Agreed, look at us this year if we knew we were safe I’m sure we would have seen more youngsters getting game time, that can only be a good thing for the game as a whole


Definitely. The game needs to stop being short sighted. If one thing does come of Leeds Wigan Kr etc being in relegation battle i hope it gives people a kick to stop relegation.

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 Post subject: Re: Relegation
PostPosted: Mon Jun 10, 2019 10:11 am 
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batleyrhino wrote:In the longer term, for the sport to thrive, it must grow. The only way to do this sustainably is franchising. We basically bottled it last time, and listened to too many people with their own agendas instead of the sport itself as their primary concern. Due to the way that this year is shaping up, with nothing really to choose between London, HKR, Leeds, and then even Wigan, Hudds and Salford all within 4 points of each other, more than half of the league are at risk of relegation (which would be catastrophic for whichever club is concerned) so I would state now that there will be no relegation this year. Then I would promote Toronto as others have said and this group then become franchises for the following season. Any club can join the following year as long as they meet certain playing, structural and commercial criteria, with the potential for one team to be added each year when they meet those criteria.

Imagine in 5 years time you could have a league that looks like this:

Leeds
Saints
Wigan
Warrington
Hull KR
Hull
Wakefield
Salford
London
Toronto
Castleford
Bradford
Leigh
Tolouse
Catalans
Huddersfield

That's 16 teams, with others like New York that could potentially join once they've met the criteria. Some will say that we simply don't have the player pool to support this number of clubs, but without the clubs and no risk of relegation this will be an eternal question. Without the risk of relegation, more kids would get chances and so the player pool grows.

It's the only sustainable way to develop the club game.


I would agree with most of that, and certainly the direction. However, I feel there should be a genuine thought process to look at dropping Wakefield, Salford and Leigh from it, and possibly Huddersfield should be forced to merge with Halifax. I would have liked to see the game support as soon as possible to grow a big challenge from the Cumbria region to replace one of those, even if that involves mergers in that area, and hopefully Newcastle can replace one of the others.






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 Post subject: Re: Relegation
PostPosted: Mon Jun 10, 2019 10:23 am 
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I agree with what's been said above. I suspect that if Leeds or Wigan are in danger of going down this season towards the end, they'll announce that the number of teams are expanding.

Loop fixtures are a complete farce!

With regards to franchising. I seem to remember a few years ago that a RU championship team finished top, but weren't allowed to be promoted because they couldn't meet requirements for grounds. That strikes me as the best idea. Have certain standards you must meet if you are to be in SL. Mainly, have a decent ground (or be working towards it actively) and an academy/reserves/womens side. If you win the champ and don't have those in place, you can't get promoted.

I do think it's too boring at the bottom end of the table if there's no threat of relegation. Too many meaningless games.

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 Post subject: Re: Relegation
PostPosted: Mon Jun 10, 2019 2:11 pm 
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christopher wrote:Next year would be the perfect time to expand to 14. London have gone really well and it would be a shame if they get relegated. Toronto are going to walk the championship so it looks like they will come up, I would let the team finish top come straight up, no relegation from SL and just move the playoffs in the Championship to 2nd to 6th rather than 1st to
5th, would the existing SL clubs vote for a cut in funding though and would SL dare change the format with less than half the season to go?

I’ve found the repeat fixtures a bit annoying this year TBH

Yep, agree 100%. With every team in superleague being competitive and with the championship going the way its going, nxt season would seem an ideal time to move to 14 teams. Its rugby league though, probably makes way too much sense for it to happen.

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 Post subject: Re: Relegation
PostPosted: Mon Jun 10, 2019 2:19 pm 
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exiledrhino wrote:I do think it's too boring at the bottom end of the table if there's no threat of relegation. Too many meaningless games.



In some ways that's a good thing, for some reason (and this started with the stupid middle 8s) the focus is all about the bottom rather than what's going on at the top, clubs should be striving ti get into the top 5 not scrabbling around trying to stay up.

The NRL doesn't have this issue but then again it only seems to be the British that are overly bothered about P&R. Look at the table as it is, there's 8 points between bottom and 5 with 24 points still to play for, theoretically every team has something to play for as they could all make the top 5, instead we are all talking about relegation - the focus is all wrong, IMHO.

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