Re: SL RD 26 | St Helens (H) : Fri Aug 16, 2019 8:50 am  

What ought to focus the club is that a side almost at full strength and quite likely paid well above the cap with 2 marquee players was outclassed by a side half full of reserves whose total salaries would be way lower.

Puts GH's whiny 'its not my fault' piece about recruitment a few weeks back in perspective.

Re: SL RD 26 | St Helens (H) : Fri Aug 16, 2019 9:31 am  

Maybe I watched a different game, but I thought that first half we were much the better side and with a bit more luck/ better refereeing we'd have been going in with 4 tries under our belts - and it would have been deserved.

Then half time happened, Saints had early luck and questionable refereeing decisions give them early tries and a real head of steam and we lost the plot trying too hard to score on every play.

It's interesting that after our two very impressive wins nobody thought there was a massive gulf in class between us and Catalans or Huddersfield - they just had bad games and we did well - but a game we did excellently in for the first 40 goes South and all of a sudden we're terrible, there's a massive gulf in class between Saints and us. We're capable of 20 minutes of self destruction and that's what happened last night and against a team with enough quality throughout to take advantage. That first half suggests to me we're not far off. The second half says we need to keep working, not panic.

Re: SL RD 26 | St Helens (H) : Fri Aug 16, 2019 9:45 am  

That was very nearly our strongest side. Ward and another prop aside we have nothing else. Sts had half a team out.

That sort of flow was exactly what we used to do to poor teams in the past - they'd hold us for a while then we'd blow them apart.

I do think we could do better with a better coach but the squad is full of average players who are simply not good enough. I've no interest in benchmarking ourselves against hudds or London or a disinterested Catalans - we need to want to be as good as or better than sts.

Re: SL RD 26 | St Helens (H) : Fri Aug 16, 2019 10:18 am  

Big Jim Slade wrote:

Maybe I watched a different game, but I thought that first half we were much the better side and with a bit more luck/ better refereeing we'd have been going in with 4 tries under our belts - and it would have been deserved.

Then half time happened, Saints had early luck and questionable refereeing decisions give them early tries and a real head of steam and we lost the plot trying too hard to score on every play.

It's interesting that after our two very impressive wins nobody thought there was a massive gulf in class between us and Catalans or Huddersfield - they just had bad games and we did well - but a game we did excellently in for the first 40 goes South and all of a sudden we're terrible, there's a massive gulf in class between Saints and us. We're capable of 20 minutes of self destruction and that's what happened last night and against a team with enough quality throughout to take advantage. That first half suggests to me we're not far off. The second half says we need to keep working, not panic.

Agreed, Saints are 16 points clear from any other team with a nearly a 260 points difference advantage, they are playing on a different level to anyone else to in the league

Having said that I think it would be hilarious if they bottled the big games again, some of their fans are getting a bit arrogant

Re: SL RD 26 | St Helens (H) : Fri Aug 16, 2019 10:41 am  

It feels like those on here expecting us to be as good as a team miles ahead of everyone in the league considering the position we've been in this season need a bit of a reality check. We're performing significantly better than we were and for the first 20 mins or so were by far the better team. Competing better with the teams at the top while finishing ahead of the teams in and around us are all we can realistically hope to achieve in our current state. Yes we're miles off the top teams with our full strength squad but we're not going to be near those top teams any time soon. We'll still be in transition next year as well and a comfortable mid-table performance would be a positive improvement. I think some people are getting a bit carried away with the good performances in the last couple of weeks. S'not going to be an overnight fix is it.

Re: SL RD 26 | St Helens (H) : Fri Aug 16, 2019 10:47 am  

I'm not expecting us to be better than sts now. I'm expecting us to want to be at that level, and heaven forbid have a plan to get there.

If sts can get to that standard there's no reason any of the other sides capable of paying the full cap can't as well.

Re: SL RD 26 | St Helens (H) : Fri Aug 16, 2019 11:10 am  

Pre-cup final game for saints and what do we do? Come up with a rather pedestrian offload game while shirking the more physical side. 99% certain there'd have been a saints player or two keen to take themselves out of the firing line had we been tougher and even if not, Holbrook might well have taken that decision.
Now, I don't know if the game plan was Agar's or the players'. If it was the former, I'd prefer a different coach for next year; the latter and I'd prefer a different captain. Last night was as close as we'll come to a big game for the foreseeable. B0ll0cks to being good in the first half, overall we were woeful.

Re: SL RD 26 | St Helens (H) : Fri Aug 16, 2019 11:23 am  

BrisbaneRhino wrote:

I'm not expecting us to be better than sts now. I'm expecting us to want to be at that level, and heaven forbid have a plan to get there.

If sts can get to that standard there's no reason any of the other sides capable of paying the full cap can't as well.

You don’t think the club want to be at that level and they don’t have a plan? Of course they do but what some people seem to be missing is it will take time, sport is circular weve had a long period of great success and in time we will again

Re: SL RD 26 | St Helens (H) : Fri Aug 16, 2019 12:05 pm  

christopher wrote:

You don’t think the club want to be at that level and they don’t have a plan? Of course they do but what some people seem to be missing is it will take time, sport is circular weve had a long period of great success and in time we will again

Totally agree with this. We can't expect to win every game, all of the time. Although Saints were depleted, we're an out of form, struggling team. The cyclical nature of professional sport unfortunately means we've now got to wait for our next period of success.

Re: SL RD 26 | St Helens (H) : Fri Aug 16, 2019 12:09 pm  

Clearwing wrote:

Pre-cup final game for saints and what do we do? Come up with a rather pedestrian offload game while shirking the more physical side. 99% certain there'd have been a saints player or two keen to take themselves out of the firing line had we been tougher and even if not, Holbrook might well have taken that decision.
Now, I don't know if the game plan was Agar's or the players'. If it was the former, I'd prefer a different coach for next year; the latter and I'd prefer a different captain. Last night was as close as we'll come to a big game for the foreseeable. B0ll0cks to being good in the first half, overall we were woeful.

Agree with that as we should have played Oledzki and not had Sutcliffe/Donaldson together on the bench.
Playing a touch and pass sevens style rugby played right in to their hands.