Re: SL RD 26 | St Helens (H) : Thu Aug 22, 2019 7:40 am  

It's an impossible comparison though isn't it?

The current Saints side is probably capable of competing with NRL sides at the moment, looking through their team I'd say a fair number would get into first grade in Aus.

You could say the same thing about Leeds back in the day, and some Bradford and Wigan sides before them.

I'm not sure you can say more than that since we can never put these teams on the field together.

Re: SL RD 26 | St Helens (H) : Thu Aug 22, 2019 7:47 am  

This is a very good Saints team. Easily the best team in SL this year( not saying a great deal) and probably the best since Warrington early part of this decade. But that side lacked mental toughness and failed getting a GF win it should have. Wigan and Leeds have shown throughout this decade that is the key ingredient; both being lesser sides quality wise imo but had the big game mentality. That still has to be proven by Saints.

Going back further i don't think they would have got over the great Bulls side. Saints 2006 side was probably the best ever in SL for me and our 2007-2010 side would have schooled them on the big stage.

Re: SL RD 26 | St Helens (H) : Thu Aug 22, 2019 8:28 am  

Gotcha - I asked someone to name a mid-table team from the past capable of beating sts and you name Cas? The team that finished top of the league? Not sure they qualify as mid-table.

I reckon the current sts team would beat our 2005 side quite comfortably under current rules. In 2005 there was still no wrestle and lots of acting half scooting. That side would be smothered. It was more entertaining then IMO but the wrestling genie isn't going back in the bottle any time soon.

Re: SL RD 26 | St Helens (H) : Thu Aug 22, 2019 9:10 am  

This current Saints side can only really be judged if they win something (not the LLS) IMO, its all very well sailing through the year like was in 2017 but if it comes to nothing then they can't be classed as a great side.

Re: SL RD 26 | St Helens (H) : Thu Aug 22, 2019 10:00 am  

BrisbaneRhino wrote:

Gotcha - I asked someone to name a mid-table team from the past capable of beating sts and you name Cas? The team that finished top of the league? Not sure they qualify as mid-table.

I reckon the current sts team would beat our 2005 side quite comfortably under current rules. In 2005 there was still no wrestle and lots of acting half scooting. That side would be smothered. It was more entertaining then IMO but the wrestling genie isn't going back in the bottle any time soon.

For me Cas are a mid table side, so I answered correctly. This Saints side wouldn't beat that Cas side. The fact they also ran away with the league in 2017 highlights my point, as you don't have to be anything special.

No way would any team of the last 5 years here, beat our 2005 team, not a chance.

Re: SL RD 26 | St Helens (H) : Thu Aug 22, 2019 10:17 am  

Gotcha wrote:

For me Cas are a mid table side, so I answered correctly. This Saints side wouldn't beat that Cas side. The fact they also ran away with the league in 2017 highlights my point, as you don't have to be anything special.

No way would any team of the last 5 years here, beat our 2005 team, not a chance.

Pure hypothesis. In other words it can't be proved.

Re: SL RD 26 | St Helens (H) : Fri Aug 23, 2019 10:23 am  

Gotcha wrote:

In 2005 Leeds lost the major trophies. There is not a team now that would come close to handling that side. That side was the best side in this country for the last 25 years.

Christ, some of them players are still even managing to kick around now in this league, all those years later. That is how much it as regressed.

Just checking - you think the Leeds '05 side is the best side in the last 25 years?

Re: SL RD 26 | St Helens (H) : Fri Aug 23, 2019 10:29 am  

Gotcha wrote:

This Saints side wouldn't beat that Cas side (2017).

The 2017 Saints side (including the appalling KC coached version) did beat the 2017 Cas side, twice, let alone the 2019 version.

We were awful all that year but would have knocked them out of the play-offs but for giving away a ludicrous late penalty for shepherding then losing on golden point.

This Saints team is WAY better than that Saints team and also better than the 2017 Cas side (in my opinion of course). I think Cas lost five out of 30 that year, Saints have lost three so far, but two of those with deliberately weakened teams.

But none of that will count for anything if we don't pick up a trophy - we will just be another impressive Saints side that didn't fulfil its potential.

Re: SL RD 26 | St Helens (H) : Fri Aug 23, 2019 10:49 am  

FearTheVee wrote:

The 2017 Saints side (including the appalling KC coached version) did beat the 2017 Cas side, twice, let alone the 2019 version.

We were awful all that year but would have knocked them out of the play-offs but for giving away a ludicrous late penalty for shepherding then losing on golden point.

This Saints team is WAY better than that Saints team and also better than the 2017 Cas side (in my opinion of course). I think Cas lost five out of 30 that year, Saints have lost three so far, but two of those with deliberately weakened teams.

But none of that will count for anything if we don't pick up a trophy - we will just be another impressive Saints side that didn't fulfil its potential.

07 and o8 there was nothing really between the Leeds and Saints teams just saints won the wrong games not the final

Re: SL RD 26 | St Helens (H) : Fri Aug 23, 2019 10:55 am  

lionarmour87 wrote:

07 and o8 there was nothing really between the Leeds and Saints teams just saints won the wrong games not the final

'05 was the killer year for me. We topped the league with a great side but ended up in the play-offs with Wilkin and a very young Scott Moore in the halves after losing the likes of Long, Sculthorpe, Hooper and Darren Albert to injury at the wrong time. Even then we lost an incredibly close elimination final to the eventual winners the Bulls (and Jamie Lyon almost dragged us back into the Leeds semi single handed but no cigar).

That Saints side finished top of the league four years running with only one GF win to show for it - more than a bit painful; very similar to 2018 in many respects. And possibly 2019 god forbid.