: Wed Jun 17, 2009 8:02 pm  

Meyt N Prater Pie wrote:

so you've chosen one game out of the 96,567 other pre superleague matches. rubbish

p.s why does EVERYTHING have to be about Superleague and pre superleague comparisons with you lot

This wasnt Anti Wigan or anything , it was merely to show how the game has changed. In fact in 1989 the champions were Widnes, not Wigan.

In 1988 for example Saints played in the Premiership final v Widnes and there were over 30 scrums in the game. Imagine how boring that was to watch. Sort of knocks on the head the belief that old rugby was better and more exciting.

: Wed Jun 17, 2009 9:29 pm  

Meyt N Prater Pie wrote:

p.s why does EVERYTHING have to be about Superleague and pre superleague comparisons with you lot

you should be greatful. when we mention pre superleague you lot can come on here and tell us how good you used to be!

: Wed Jun 17, 2009 11:13 pm  

ST STEPHEN wrote:

you should be greatful. when we mention pre superleague you lot can come on here and tell us how good you used to be!

well Ill give you that one

: Thu Jun 18, 2009 6:38 am  

The Chair Maker wrote:

Half the problem with RL is that the fans are kept in the dark about tactics so cant appreciate what truly goes on, on the pitch.

As a result the only interest fans get is from seeing someone score what looks like a great try.

Many of todays trys from inside 40 metres of the opposition line are technically far better trys, than the solo long range efforts of yesteryear. Todays trys are often real team efforts that move through multiple pairs of hands and work the opposition defence hard.

Defences pre SL were very bad, so a lot of trys that were scored were very soft efforts, even if they looked good.

As a guide i got the stats for Widnes v Cas in 1989. At half time Widnes had made 126 tackles and missed 26, while Cas had made 90 tackles and missed 30. The score was 12-12 by the way. Match played in dry conditions and this was two teams in the top 6.
GB international centre Andy Currier had missed 5 tackles after just 30 minutes play.

Statistically therefore Cas had a 75% tackle completion rate
Widnes had a 82% completion rate.
Remember this percentage was likely to drop as players tired in the second half.

For Comparison Saints currently average 94% tackle completion this year, and we dont have the most miserly defensive record in the league.

In the modern game a team completing only 75% tackles would be annihilated, yet strangely this supposedly very exciting game from the 1980's was locked at 12 all, despite paper thin defence.

That to me points to a far poorer game than we see today, as clearly players were not good enough to exploit the gaps constantly appearing on the pitch. Overall application and execution was poor, and it was generally left to pieces of individual inspiration rather than great teamwork to score a try.

Great - but means zilch in terms of whether the average fan finds it entertaining

: Thu Jun 18, 2009 4:09 pm  

gladiator1 wrote:

Great - but means zilch in terms of whether the average fan finds it entertaining

True but great defence is as entertaining as great attacking play e.g. I remember KC chasing down Mark Smith over 80m, tackling him right on the line and tackling him dead. Amazing stuff and I'm sure every fan can recall something similarly entertaining from their own players e.g. Burgess on Moi Moi, Leuluai on Maurie, Hanley on Sterling.

: Thu Jun 18, 2009 4:44 pm  

McClennan wrote:

True but great defence is as entertaining as great attacking play e.g. I remember KC chasing down Mark Smith over 80m, tackling him right on the line and tackling him dead. Amazing stuff and I'm sure every fan can recall something similarly entertaining from their own players e.g. Burgess on Moi Moi, Leuluai on Maurie, Hanley on Sterling.

Very true made all the more brilliant by the fact that night finished 19-0

Sullivan knocking the ball out of Henare's hands in the league decider in 1996

In one CC semi at JJB, Leeds made a break and Albert tackled on one side & as Leeds flung it to the opposite side he tracked the entire width of the pitch to help put the guy in touch.


The cheer from the crowd celebrating the bringing down of an almost certain try scoring break is often as big as celebrating some tries!

: Thu Jun 18, 2009 5:47 pm  

Meyt N Prater Pie wrote:

so you've chosen one game out of the 96,567 other pre superleague matches. rubbish

p.s why does EVERYTHING have to be about Superleague and pre superleague comparisons with you lot

I agree completely.

The same game is still being played just with fitter players.

: Thu Jun 18, 2009 5:55 pm  

odemwingie wrote:

I agree completely.

The same game is still being played just with fitter players.

Defences have evolved quite a lot which is what TCM's statistics were attempting to prove. I would say that, certainly over here, defences have evolved faster than the attacking side of the game which is to be expected when teams aren't falling off tackles as easily.

: Thu Jun 18, 2009 5:57 pm  

odemwingie wrote:

I agree completely.

The same game is still being played just with fitter players.

And they don't take any risks for fear of being told off by the coaches.

: Thu Jun 18, 2009 6:07 pm  

McClennan wrote:

Defences have evolved quite a lot which is what TCM's statistics were attempting to prove. I would say that, certainly over here, defences have evolved faster than the attacking side of the game which is to be expected when teams aren't falling off tackles as easily.

I think it's a combination of both defence and attack that has improved. Players are fitter which helps in both areas of the game.