: Mon Jun 22, 2009 8:15 pm  

Saint Simon wrote:

on what evidence?

Have we seen Eastmond play a full game at 7?
Have we seen Eastmond play a consistent run of games at 7?
Have we seen Eastmond play 7 against a top team?
Can Eastmond control a game?
Can he stay injury free?

etc.

Look, i'm not denying Eastmond is a very good prospect but as of yet, we have seen nothing IMO to suggest he can definately be the future number seven. He is being touted based on what? The fact that he has pace and is talked up by everybody.

: Mon Jun 22, 2009 8:32 pm  

ST_CONROY wrote:

Have we seen Eastmond play a full game at 7?
Have we seen Eastmond play a consistent run of games at 7?
Have we seen Eastmond play 7 against a top team?
Can Eastmond control a game?
Can he stay injury free?

etc.

Look, i'm not denying Eastmond is a very good prospect but as of yet, we have seen nothing IMO to suggest he can definately be the future number seven. He is being touted based on what? The fact that he has pace and is talked up by everybody.

The problem with Smith is that he's had the other things you mention, but he's never really done the one in bold.

: Mon Jun 22, 2009 8:33 pm  

ST_CONROY wrote:

Have we seen Eastmond play a full game at 7?
Have we seen Eastmond play a consistent run of games at 7?
Have we seen Eastmond play 7 against a top team?
Can Eastmond control a game?
Can he stay injury free?

etc.

Look, i'm not denying Eastmond is a very good prospect but as of yet, we have seen nothing IMO to suggest he can definately be the future number seven. He is being touted based on what? The fact that he has pace and is talked up by everybody.

Matty's not having a great season injurywise, though is he?
My point is we havn't seen enough of either of them to make a judgement.

: Mon Jun 22, 2009 8:40 pm  

ST_CONROY wrote:

Have we seen Eastmond play a full game at 7?

Yes against Bradford was last full game he played.

ST_CONROY wrote:

Have we seen Eastmond play a consistent run of games at 7?

No.

ST_CONROY wrote:

Have we seen Eastmond play 7 against a top team?

Eastmond has 24 first team appearances for Saints, to Smiths 17 for Saints
In addition Smith has 8 appearances for Celtic.
So its pretty safe to say that Eastmond has played against nearly as much top class opposition as Smith.

ST_CONROY wrote:

Can Eastmond control a game?

not yet, but then neither can Matty Smith. The ability to control a game comes with experience.

ST_CONROY wrote:

Can he stay injury free?

Can any player? At this stage he is no more injury prone than Matty Smith

: Mon Jun 22, 2009 10:44 pm  

The Chair Maker wrote:

Yes against Bradford was last full game he played.

How did he play? I didn't go.

The Chair Maker wrote:

No.

The Chair Maker wrote:

Eastmond has 24 first team appearances for Saints, to Smiths 17 for Saints
In addition Smith has 8 appearances for Celtic.
So its pretty safe to say that Eastmond has played against nearly as much top class opposition as Smith.

That may be the case, but on how many of those occassions has he been used at 7 for the duration? I can't remember him playing or being introduced in a tight game at seven. When he has played, generally it has been later in games when defences are tired and he is kind of given a free reign to go and run wherever.

Smith has played against the top teams, not least in the play-off eliminator against Leeds where he should have made the team for the Final with his performance.

The Chair Maker wrote:

not yet, but then neither can Matty Smith. The ability to control a game comes with experience.

From the times i've seen Smith, both at Saints and particularly at Celtic he has been the one controlling the play. It speaks volumes that in the game against Warrington they were winning until he was injured and likewise the first win was in his first game back from injury.

The Chair Maker wrote:

Can any player? At this stage he is no more injury prone than Matty Smith

I agree. Smith has had a few injuries, of which one was a freak injury where he was kicked after putting in a kick. My point in reference to Eastmond is not only does he get the odd "serious" (for want of a better word) injury but he seems to be like Gilly and end up limping virtually every game.

: Mon Jun 22, 2009 11:15 pm  

There more I think about it, the more I think we might have missed a trick not giving Matty a decent run out at hooker. If Moore can make the transition there's no reason preventing Matty. He could be lethal kicking long out of the dummy half.

: Tue Jun 23, 2009 7:50 am  

ST_CONROY wrote:

That may be the case, but on how many of those occassions has he been used at 7 for the duration? I can't remember him playing or being introduced in a tight game at seven. When he has played, generally it has been later in games when defences are tired and he is kind of given a free reign to go and run wherever.

What I find annoying about your argument is that you seem to be quick to point out that you've never seen Eastmond "control" a game from 7, when you obviously know (as you've pointed it out) that he hasn't had much of a chance in his favoured position. Smith got a good once when long was injured, but since then Kyle's not had the same chance in terms of a run of games without Long being about.

As for the bit in bold, go and watch the game from the JJB earlier in the year. Kyle's presence at 1st receiver really settled us down, his varied kicking game was superb, he offered a threat to the line when in possession, kicked a touchline conversion and then banged over a 40m drop goal. His introduction was one of the biggest factors in us winning.

Mugwump wrote:

There more I think about it, the more I think we might have missed a trick not giving Matty a decent run out at hooker. If Moore can make the transition there's no reason preventing Matty. He could be lethal kicking long out of the dummy half.

I was on this train of thought while Moore was at Cas, although since he's pulled it round at the Giants, I think he's trumped Matty on this front.

: Tue Jun 23, 2009 10:50 am  

Mugwump wrote:

There more I think about it, the more I think we might have missed a trick not giving Matty a decent run out at hooker. If Moore can make the transition there's no reason preventing Matty. He could be lethal kicking long out of the dummy half.

Maybe, but unless Roby gets moved elsewhere (which I think would be a bad move) I doubt that we would ever need him there.

I also think that Moores size is an advantage for him at nine, as we will be missing beef in the defensive line when KC retires.

: Tue Jun 23, 2009 10:59 am  

Smurf wrote:

Maybe, but unless Roby gets moved elsewhere (which I think would be a bad move) I doubt that we would ever need him there.

I also think that Moores size is an advantage for him at nine, as we will be missing beef in the defensive line when KC retires.

I just hope Moore lives up to the hype. In the Hudds v Hull KR and France v England matches he looked very impressive indeed, but in his most recent Hudds match against Cas he looked back to his old self - penalties and wayward passes. One thing he seems to lack is a cool head when the going is tough - not a good thing for a hooker. Hopefully that will come with experience though; he's certainly come on in leaps and bounds this year.

: Tue Jun 23, 2009 11:19 am  

Dux wrote:

One thing he seems to lack is a cool head when the going is tough - not a good thing for a hooker..

but very understanable given his age. I'm sure that could be easily sorted.