: Sun May 17, 2009 10:25 am  

SaintsFan wrote:

Nah, I don't think so. He didn't for three years anyway, except the occasional match (I don't expect a team to be on form every week!). Potter came with the reputation from Catalans of being not exactly defensively sound and of not being the best at discipline (the two are probably connected). Sure enough, our defenses have slipped and we are around the middle of the bathroom table when it comes to discipline. Under Anderson we had the best defence in the league and we won some taps last year. That was only last season; I can't see even Longy and KC ageing to such a degree in less than 12 months that they can't achieve the same degree of discipline!

The weaknesses of some players were clearly visible under DA and were never addressed.

You would also be amazed at how much difference 12 months makes in terms of fitness and conditioning. As someone who used to participate in competitive athletics I can vouch for just how much your energy levels can alter even within a particular season. Combine that with the battering that a rugby player takes every week, new coaching techniques it makes for a massive difference.

: Sun May 17, 2009 10:28 am  

Superb 2nd half effort from St Helens RLFC. To be hit for 10 points in a couple of minutes just before half time and make the scoreboard read 22 - 10 must have been a bit of a tough thing to gulp down. But the boys came out, muscled up and did the bizz. Again we let in a bucket full of points, something we have been doing for 5 weeks or so now, but this game is ok to allow the points in, the dragons like to rack up a fair few points at home and those fans sure help out to.

The game looked to haev took a bit out of our lads though, few knocks picked up and some massive hits put into our lads. PLenty aching bodies this morning, hopefully the red wine soothes the aches though.

Great win, not many will go to frog and go behind 22 - 10 and come away with a WIN ! Big 2 points, we remain first just like we have been for the past 4 and half years, long may it continue.

DEFENCE !

: Sun May 17, 2009 10:38 am  

St pete wrote:

KC defence this season is very very poor. I've never seen him miss tackles like he has this year.

Longy used to get little credit for his defence out wide but for years It was top draw. In games I've seen him mark the likes if Faz and seinor out of big games with great defence.

Both are in rapid decline and are not 30% of what they was last season.

We should also not count out the fact that these two players have won everything time and time again. This can, in some cases, result in a lack of drive and I believe it is where a good coach excels in getting the best out of players. Two examples of this can be taken from football. Both Ryan Giggs of Man Utd and Ray Kennedy of Liverpool (74-82).

Re: Giggs. Ferguson knows that he is a player past his best for 90 mins week in week out, but can still be a vital weapon for short spells or on certain matches due to his superior technical ability and footballing brain.

Re: Kennedy. Paisley purchased Kennedy at a time when he was a striker, however, one in decline. He then altered Kennedy's position to that of an attacking midfielder, which he excelled at.

I think MP needs to start to look at both Long and KC and analyze how they can be utilized more effectively.

: Sun May 17, 2009 11:18 am  

We pretty much dominated the second half last night. In the first half Catalans were superb and were forcing the game although I did think we were creeping back into it in the final quarter of an hourbut suffered the tries before the break.

After the break our kicking game improved and our defence stepped up a bit. Great result considering our record over there.

: Sun May 17, 2009 11:32 am  

some of us appear to be moaning but were top of the league cant be doing to much wrong? especially that other teams have got better

: Sun May 17, 2009 11:36 am  

Up until Easter our defence was probably better than it had ever been under Anderson. Obviously something has gone awry since then, I'm sure it can be rectified.

: Sun May 17, 2009 1:50 pm  

NY_Saint wrote:

At times his season we have been far more inventive under MP than DA, however DA seemed to be a taskmaster at defence which was the cornerstone of his CC success for three years running and for our 2006 title winning season.

I haven't watched all our matches but of the ones that I have I would say the Leeds CC round stands out as truly inventive for us. I think seeing the Pryce/Wilkin pairing was refreshing. Perhaps what we need is refreshing? Maybe our format is stale now? I don't know. But for most of the matches I have watched we have appeared far from inventive. In fact, on more than one occasion when I've watched a match back on Sky I've heard the Sky guys say that 'this is the kind of thing Saints usually do to the opposition' (when the opposition is doing it to us!). It was said again on the Catalans highlights when they took off for their own imminent wide to West moment right at the end - an opportunity afforded to them by our lack of discipline.

And by discipline I didn't mean dirty play. Saints are not a dirty team. But this season they have become far less disciplined with the ball, something again for which Catalans were well known under Potter. I know I'm not the only fan to make this link and I don't think it is unreasonable but having poor ball control plus poor defence equals lots more points against us and a tougher journey to the end of each match, with a greater risk of us losing. On top of that, Long has been in poor form overall this year with his boot (and I appreciate there are exceptions - he was a real Jeckyl and Hyde at Catalans, getting over some superb touchline kicks in the second half). Having just the one kicker in Long has been a weakness neglected by both DA and now Potter (I was hoping Potter would address it). That needs urgent attention, not least to take the pressure off Long.

I can't help feeling though that our squad looks tired and at times disinterested

I agree entirely, which is why I would say we need some refreshing. At the Leeds CC round I thought Potter was going to do that. Not that Pryce and Wilkin would have performed like that every week! But it definitely inspired us and put some fresh umph and creativity into our game, which has been lacking for many of our matches so far this year.

: Sun May 17, 2009 2:53 pm  

I think it's harsh to suggest the players look disinterested.

Yes, our defence and our ball control has slipped somewhat over the last few weeks, but I think this is in large part down to the fact that we are playing with a depleted front row. We're struggling to get the kind of go forward that gives players like Long the time to make good decisions and execute plays properly, and this is putting us under pressure.

The period in which we've been struggling a bit - since we beat Wigan at the JJB - is exactly the same period in which Cayless has been out injured. Not a coincidence, I think.

: Sun May 17, 2009 2:56 pm  

_nay0r_4_jenny_ wrote:

some of us appear to be moaning but were top of the league cant be doing to much wrong? especially that other teams have got better

I'm not moaning and pointed out we in last 8 of CC and top of league.

I'm just saying that potter should be giving time to put his mark on this team that is in process of being rebuilt.

What we don't need is fans booing and saying sack potter evdrytime we lose.

I'm sure we will lose few more yet but potter will make saints the force we was 3 year ago.

: Sun May 17, 2009 3:00 pm  

Dux wrote:

Up until Easter our defence was probably better than it had ever been under Anderson. Obviously something has gone awry since then, I'm sure it can be rectified.

I'm pretty sure it's coz the constant swapping of our back row is why we r weak in defence out wide.

We should keep wheeler in centre and leave gilly and wilkin in 2nd row for the rest of the year if poss