: Wed May 20, 2009 10:47 am  

Penny won't make a top rugby league player.

Just because someone has pace doesn't mean that they will be good with rugby ball in hand.

He can't defend, and all he has is pace.

: Wed May 20, 2009 11:02 am  

at the end of the day, he is a better winger than Saints have produced in the past 20 years (at least).

: Wed May 20, 2009 12:06 pm  

Mugwump wrote:

Gardner had a single major weakness to his game: catching a high ball. That's certainly coachable, although he'll never be outstanding in that department. Penny has MULTIPLE major weaknesses to his game: fielding kicks, committing himself too early (leaving him vulnerable to a winger stepping inside and the cut-out pass), a lack of physical presence etc. It will take a coaching miracle to shore up those problems.

Blistering pace alone is no reason to get into a SL first team. Brimah Kebbie taught us that.

Cant argue he has plenty of issues around his defence and I dont think he will ever be a Meli when it comes to physical presence (unless they legalise roids) but I think with good coaching and hard work he could overcome most of his problems. I really hope he does tbh because like others have said we are lacking quality wingers

: Wed May 20, 2009 12:33 pm  

OoOGazOoO wrote:

Penny won't make a top rugby league player.

Just because someone has pace doesn't mean that they will be good with rugby ball in hand.

He can't defend, and all he has is pace.

He has a fantastic tallent for finishing tries.. did you see the tries he scored against Leeds and yourselves last year? There is nobody in SL that could/would have scored those tries. He has a tallent, defence has improved dramatically, just needs to work on his positional play... watch this space.

: Wed May 20, 2009 12:49 pm  

Mugwump wrote:

Gardner had a single major weakness to his game: catching a high ball. That's certainly coachable, although he'll never be outstanding in that department. Penny has MULTIPLE major weaknesses to his game: fielding kicks, committing himself too early (leaving him vulnerable to a winger stepping inside and the cut-out pass), a lack of physical presence etc. It will take a coaching miracle to shore up those problems.

Blistering pace alone is no reason to get into a SL first team. Brimah Kebbie taught us that.

A lot of that can be coached, however the coming in too early can be due to a number of reasons, one of which is a lack of confidence of the defender inside doing his job. People also forget how inexperienced he is.

His lack of physical presence is more of a concern, if you bulk him up too much does he lose the agility and pace that give him the edge in attack? I'm starting to come round to Chairmakers full back idea myself, his broken field running he could be devastating.

: Wed May 20, 2009 12:59 pm  

My big worry is that he has gone to Widnes were he will be UN-COACHED by Cullen.

A man who failed to bring on the raw talent of Penny in the first place.

This also concerns me re the development of Tyrer at the Smellies.

Kevin Penny is also no child either, according to the SL website he was born on 3rd October 1987 which makes him 22 this year.
His game should therefore have developed somewhat by now, with significant progress seen in areas were he was weak.

Kevin Pennys epic fall from grace is also probably a significant drain on Wires salary cap. They signed him up to a long contract after he broke on the scene in a blaze of publicity. I dare say he managed to get a good deal out of them as well.
It wouldnt surprise me if he is the best paid reserve team player and now cooperative championship player out there.

From a RL perspective im saddened by his failure to date. Its a failure of the British RL system and wire in particular to correctly identify a raw talent and then develop it to the required standard.

: Wed May 20, 2009 1:03 pm  

saints35 bulls0 wrote:

at the end of the day, he is a better winger than Saints have produced in the past 20 years (at least).

Joey Hayes was a better winger than Penny by some distance I'd say, but had his career cut short by injury.

I don't mind a winger having some technical deficiencies if they're good at what wingers are there for - take Sullivan for example - but Penny's weaknesses are too many and too profound.

: Wed May 20, 2009 3:16 pm  

Dux wrote:

Joey Hayes was a better winger than Penny by some distance I'd say, but had his career cut short by injury.

I don't mind a winger having some technical deficiencies if they're good at what wingers are there for - take Sullivan for example - but Penny's weaknesses are too many and too profound.

nonsense - with good coaching he would be fine. Like Chairmaker has mentioned though he almost certainly wont get that with Cullen or in the lower divisions. He needs a top coach and alot of hard work but it could be done. (Steve Austin Style)

: Wed May 20, 2009 3:38 pm  

No1 Saint wrote:

nonsense - with good coaching he would be fine.

You can't turn a cat into a car. If he isn't up to standard no amount of coaching will turn him into a good player. If it could Dwayne Chambers would be on the wing for GB.

: Wed May 20, 2009 6:39 pm  

Mugwump wrote:

If he isn't up to standard no amount of coaching will turn him into a good player.

But has he had the right coaching to find out whether he is up to standard? I just get the feeling that he's been failed by the system.