: Tue Jun 23, 2009 11:40 am  

Ideally he'd accept a one-year extension so we could have a look at a more mature Smith at scrum half and hooker. But I very much doubt he'll accept such terms given his age and potential.

Difficult decision. My heart's saying we can afford to lose Smith but my head's saying it's going to bite us on the booty.

: Tue Jun 23, 2009 11:41 am  

Offside Monkey wrote:

What I find annoying about your argument is that you seem to be quick to point out that you've never seen Eastmond "control" a game from 7, when you obviously know (as you've pointed it out) that he hasn't had much of a chance in his favoured position. Smith got a good once when long was injured, but since then Kyle's not had the same chance in terms of a run of games without Long being about.

I accept that but then my point is, which i haven't seen answered anywhere, is how can Eastmond possibly be touted so uniformly by everybody as the next and future number seven (people have even suggested he could go on to England etc) when, even by your admission he hasn't really had much chance there?

That is my entire point. Eastmond is a great talent, that i'm not disputing, but compared to Smith for the seven shirt i don't see how he can be deemed ahead in that race. I liken him to Kevin Penny in the respect that he has pace and has used it occassionally but other than that, in the first team we have seen very little.

Offside Monkey wrote:

As for the bit in bold, go and watch the game from the JJB earlier in the year. Kyle's presence at 1st receiver really settled us down, his varied kicking game was superb, he offered a threat to the line when in possession, kicked a touchline conversion and then banged over a 40m drop goal. His introduction was one of the biggest factors in us winning.

I agree actually, he played well when he came on?

Was that when Long was out and Wilkin was seven?

: Tue Jun 23, 2009 11:58 am  

Dux wrote:

I just hope Moore lives up to the hype. In the Hudds v Hull KR and France v England matches he looked very impressive indeed, but in his most recent Hudds match against Cas he looked back to his old self - penalties and wayward passes. One thing he seems to lack is a cool head when the going is tough - not a good thing for a hooker. Hopefully that will come with experience though; he's certainly come on in leaps and bounds this year.

a lot of the England players seem to have been down on thier usual best a bit this weekend.

: Tue Jun 23, 2009 12:39 pm  

ST_CONROY wrote:

I accept that but then my point is, which i haven't seen answered anywhere, is how can Eastmond possibly be touted so uniformly by everybody as the next and future number seven (people have even suggested he could go on to England etc) when, even by your admission he hasn't really had much chance there?

That is my entire point. Eastmond is a great talent, that i'm not disputing, but compared to Smith for the seven shirt i don't see how he can be deemed ahead in that race.

From my point of veiw, i'd say the following-
Eastmond's pace and running ability have made him able to slip into our team in a variety of positions, running at full back and even centre in a dominant team without too many problems. This seems, in some peoples' eyes, to be veiwed as a negetive - implying that, because he has pace, he won't have the passing and distributing skills a half back requires. Your familiar comment of "he's too much like Pryce" sticks in my mind.
However, it seems quite clear to me that while filling in Kyle looks like a decent kid with a bit of zip, it when he's had the (rare) opportunity to stand at 1st recever and play his familiar scrum half role that we have seen glimpses of true potential (and a lot of it).
Whilst I am a fan of Matty Smith's and hope he manages to find a good spot somewhere in SL, his game was just a little too pedestrian. An able deputy with a good long (or very long) kicking game, i just don't know if he's every going to be good enough for a top end club. Eastmond on the other hand seems to have pretty much everything Smith does (shaving a bit of distance of his kicking and admittedly Smith's a tougher defender) but with an added threat, pace and confidence.
When at Saints smith would often be pushed out the way by more senior players, thus causing him to be less involved than a 7 should be.
In Kyle, we see a lad that has the same sort of pace and running of a young Long or Burrow, but already has a set of kicking and passing that only started to appear in their games after they'd become established (international) half backs. Hopefully we're right, but even if we're not, I don't think Smith would be the answer to our prayers at 7.

I liken him to Kevin Penny

A tad harsh?

Was that when Long was out and Wilkin was seven?

Yup

: Tue Jun 23, 2009 12:46 pm  

Offside Monkey wrote:

From my point of veiw, i'd say the following-
Eastmond's pace and running ability have made him able to slip into our team in a variety of positions, running at full back and even centre in a dominant team without too many problems. This seems, in some peoples' eyes, to be veiwed as a negetive - implying that, because he has pace, he won't have the passing and distributing skills a half back requires. Your familiar comment of "he's too much like Pryce" sticks in my mind.
However, it seems quite clear to me that while filling in Kyle looks like a decent kid with a bit of zip, it when he's had the (rare) opportunity to stand at 1st recever and play his familiar scrum half role that we have seen glimpses of true potential (and a lot of it).
Whilst I am a fan of Matty Smith's and hope he manages to find a good spot somewhere in SL, his game was just a little too pedestrian. An able deputy with a good long (or very long) kicking game, i just don't know if he's every going to be good enough for a top end club. Eastmond on the other hand seems to have pretty much everything Smith does (shaving a bit of distance of his kicking and admittedly Smith's a tougher defender) but with an added threat, pace and confidence.
When at Saints smith would often be pushed out the way by more senior players, thus causing him to be less involved than a 7 should be.
In Kyle, we see a lad that has the same sort of pace and running of a young Long or Burrow, but already has a set of kicking and passing that only started to appear in their games after they'd become established (international) half backs. Hopefully we're right, but even if we're not, I don't think Smith would be the answer to our prayers at 7.

A tad harsh?

Yup

Fair play, i do accept Eastmond is vert talented and i'd hope both could have a career at Saints. Be that with Eastmond at 7 and Smith at 9 or with Eastmond at 1 and Smith at 7.

As for me saying he is too similar to Pryce. That isn't a slight on him, Leon is immense but for me his play dipping in and out is similar to the way Leon plays. Would that work in a tough grinding game (like say the last two grand finals?). Maybe it would and Wilkin could step up and help. Only time will tell.

: Tue Jun 23, 2009 12:48 pm  

I would like to see matty back at saints next year competing for places with Kyle.

: Tue Jun 23, 2009 1:27 pm  

ST_CONROY wrote:

for me his play dipping in and out is similar to the way Leon plays.

That's the crux of our disagreement - I don't think his game's like that, I just think that perhaps you're judging him on when he's been playing out of position out wide. When he's had the chance at #7, he seems every bit the little general.

: Tue Jun 23, 2009 1:31 pm  

You've got to remember that the coaching team watch the players closely every day in training, know all about their strengths and flaws, their personality and are able to make a far more informed decision than we are. We see the lads once a week for 80 minutes and every now and then here a rumour about their attitude.

I've got the upmost faith in Potter and McManus to make the right call and I suspect that will mean we have seen the last of Smith at KR. Eastmond is raw and has plenty of work to do but for pure x-factor and attacking ability Smith does not come close.

I thought Smith did well in his run of games last year and his long kicking game is superb but, for me, he likes ideas attacking the opposition line. He might have a future at hooker but in Moore & Roby we are already well off their and I'm sure Smith will have a long Super League career at scrum half. Just not with us.

: Tue Jun 23, 2009 1:31 pm  

Offside Monkey wrote:

That's the crux of our disagreement - I don't think his game's like that, I just think that perhaps you're judging him on when he's been playing out of position out wide. When he's had the chance at #7, he seems every bit the little general.

Maybe. Like everybody i'd like to see him given more time at seven so we can truly evaluate him.

: Tue Jun 23, 2009 1:34 pm  

ST_CONROY wrote:

Maybe. Like everybody i'd like to see him given more time at seven so we can truly evaluate him.

I hazard a guess we'll start to see a lot more, since Long's departure was confirmed. I reckon the coaches would've prefered to have been in this situation 12 months in the future, but needs must when the devil drives, and all that jazz.

I still think the Kevin Penny comment was uncalled for, though