Re: Squad Announced : Thu Feb 26, 2015 10:27 am  

Saint Simon wrote:

A blind man on a galloping horse can see Dawson isnt good enough for a top side

I feel I have to challenge this in the interests of fairness. Dawson's been labelled with this "not good enough" tag since he arrived - possibly as a result of the way he arrived and the coach's comments at the time.

However, while I absolutely agree that he's no Jamie Lyon or Mal Meninga, I just don't see that he's an order of magnitude less able than Jones, Turner or even Percival at the moment. They all have on and off days, and it's not trashing Percival, for example, to say that he should really have taken two tries against Souths and occasionally seems defensively suspect. Likewise Turner can have completely anonymous games where he certainly doesn't run his size. Jones is aggressive, and perhaps the most defensively sound in the middle, but on the edges can get found out positionally, and is not exactly a top-rank attacking threat with ball in hand.

I'm not bashing them - they are what they are : solid, unexciting centres (Percival has potential to excite, but I worry he won't be big enough). As Mugwump pointed out on another thread, the salary cap prevents us from having a star pack (which we do have) AND star backs (which we don't).

So how is Dawson significantly worse ? I've seen him play plenty now, and he is not noticeably weaker in defence than the others, and not noticeably less threatening in attack than the others.

Is this a case of give a dog a bad name and confirmation bias will follow ?

Re: Squad Announced : Thu Feb 26, 2015 12:11 pm  

Roy Haggerty wrote:

I feel I have to challenge this in the interests of fairness. Dawson's been labelled with this "not good enough" tag since he arrived - possibly as a result of the way he arrived and the coach's comments at the time.

However, while I absolutely agree that he's no Jamie Lyon or Mal Meninga, I just don't see that he's an order of magnitude less able than Jones, Turner or even Percival at the moment. They all have on and off days, and it's not trashing Percival, for example, to say that he should really have taken two tries against Souths and occasionally seems defensively suspect. Likewise Turner can have completely anonymous games where he certainly doesn't run his size. Jones is aggressive, and perhaps the most defensively sound in the middle, but on the edges can get found out positionally, and is not exactly a top-rank attacking threat with ball in hand.

I'm not bashing them - they are what they are : solid, unexciting centres (Percival has potential to excite, but I worry he won't be big enough). As Mugwump pointed out on another thread, the salary cap prevents us from having a star pack (which we do have) AND star backs (which we don't).

So how is Dawson significantly worse ? I've seen him play plenty now, and he is not noticeably weaker in defence than the others, and not noticeably less threatening in attack than the others.

Is this a case of give a dog a bad name and confirmation bias will follow ?

I'm of the opinion that Dawson won't 'make it' at Saints, largely because I disagree with the part of your post that I've put in bold. He is solid enough in defence and has decent hands, but I think he's quite a distance behind the others you mention - particularly Percival - as an attacking player. He just doesn't strike me as having the athleticism required for a three-quarter. Jones isn't especially dynamic but he is direct and he does make breaks. Turner can be disappointing but he has upped his game so far this year (Souths game aside) and is running much harder and making plenty of ground. Percy, for me, has all the elusiveness - and, increasingly, power - of a genuinely top class centre; he just needs to put a stone on, which I suspect he will in time.

Dawson is handy to have around in situations like this, but I don't see him displacing any of the players mentioned above in the pecking order (although he might not need to displace Jones, as KC might want him in the back row).

Re: Squad Announced : Thu Feb 26, 2015 12:14 pm  

From what I have seen of Dawson, he is much better suited to the centre than the wing.

But I think he has only played 1 or maybe 2 games at centre.

There is an element of we must bash someone. Would you rather have Dawson or Jamie Lyon (obvious answer is Jamie Lyon)..

But that's not the actual question, the question is would you rather have Dawson, Walsh, Amor and probably 1 or 2 others or (Jamie Lyon).

That is not so straight forward in Lyons favour. I think Dawson plays a valuable role the same as Jones. He is there or there abouts and if someone is off form they can be dropped and replaced. The other option is to spend a lot of cap on a squad player, which means sacrificing a player from 1-17.

Re: Squad Announced : Thu Feb 26, 2015 1:29 pm  

bewareshadows wrote:

From what I have seen of Dawson, he is much better suited to the centre than the wing.

But I think he has only played 1 or maybe 2 games at centre.

There is an element of we must bash someone. Would you rather have Dawson or Jamie Lyon (obvious answer is Jamie Lyon)..

But that's not the actual question, the question is would you rather have Dawson, Walsh, Amor and probably 1 or 2 others or (Jamie Lyon).

That is not so straight forward in Lyons favour. I think Dawson plays a valuable role the same as Jones. He is there or there abouts and if someone is off form they can be dropped and replaced. The other option is to spend a lot of cap on a squad player, which means sacrificing a player from 1-17.

I agree much better suited in the centres than the wing, he's not shy in making a fair number of metres, strong player who gives 100%. His weakness is being exposed on the wing under a high ball if he goes up a notch in performance then he could be challenging Turner and Jones for that unconvincing centre spot at the moment.

Re: Squad Announced : Thu Feb 26, 2015 3:32 pm  

Magic Superbeetle wrote:

You seem to have a real downer on Swift? Has he offended you in someway? You can't seriously consider Dawson as a better option?

Why should I have to quantify my opinions to you.

Re: Squad Announced : Thu Feb 26, 2015 3:41 pm  

I can't beleive anyone can even considsr Dawson as an attacking threat at all, he's basically dead when he has the ball.

Jones in the centre for me

Re: Squad Announced : Thu Feb 26, 2015 4:04 pm  

Dawson must have compromising photos of cunningham to even make a 19. He's so frustratingly average.

Re: Squad Announced : Thu Feb 26, 2015 4:12 pm  

FearTheVee wrote:

Dawson must have compromising photos of cunningham to even make a 19. He's so frustratingly average.

What so far unseen 3/4s do we have about to spill out of the youth system? Where's Galbraith up to? Jack Ashworth? There's a centre on the website called Matthew Fleming?

Re: Squad Announced : Thu Feb 26, 2015 4:17 pm  

Roy Haggerty wrote:

I feel I have to challenge this in the interests of fairness. Dawson's been labelled with this "not good enough" tag since he arrived - possibly as a result of the way he arrived and the coach's comments at the time.

However, while I absolutely agree that he's no Jamie Lyon or Mal Meninga, I just don't see that he's an order of magnitude less able than Jones, Turner or even Percival at the moment. They all have on and off days, and it's not trashing Percival, for example, to say that he should really have taken two tries against Souths and occasionally seems defensively suspect. Likewise Turner can have completely anonymous games where he certainly doesn't run his size. Jones is aggressive, and perhaps the most defensively sound in the middle, but on the edges can get found out positionally, and is not exactly a top-rank attacking threat with ball in hand.

I'm not bashing them - they are what they are : solid, unexciting centres (Percival has potential to excite, but I worry he won't be big enough). As Mugwump pointed out on another thread, the salary cap prevents us from having a star pack (which we do have) AND star backs (which we don't).

So how is Dawson significantly worse ? I've seen him play plenty now, and he is not noticeably weaker in defence than the others, and not noticeably less threatening in attack than the others.

Is this a case of give a dog a bad name and confirmation bias will follow ?

More like months of watching him and getting frustrated.
Your correct in that he's ish the same defensively as Percy and swift (as in not good at it) but his attack is also woeful. Countless times last year and in preseason this i wanted to tear off my arm just to have something to beat him with for not backing himself on the outside. Why must he cut in every time???!!!!

Re: Squad Announced : Thu Feb 26, 2015 7:20 pm  

Because at heart I think he is a centre.

That cut inside is what a centre will do to make space for their winger.

When he has played centre, he's been decent and can bust a few tackles and make half breaks for his winger to complete.

A club Legend and now coach and a GF and league winning coach have picked him in their squads, I think it tells us enough that just because he aint a saints junior does not mean he can't be of value to the squad.