Re: Matty Smith : Fri Sep 17, 2010 1:33 pm  

Blobbynator wrote:

Matty Smith was sensational against Warringtion, his best display in a Saints shirt by a mile. His kicking game was immaculate and he changed the game with the the kick for the opening try and the 40/20. He deserved the MOM award in a superb team effort. IMO, he must stay in the side at 7 for the remainder of the year and should Kyle or Lomax return, the other slots in at 6. I have my doubts whether we'll see either again to be honest and there's no need to keep Smith out of the team purely on that basis alone.

If I had more time I'd imagine my response to this thread would have been this. Pretty much word for word!

Re: Matty Smith : Fri Sep 17, 2010 4:14 pm  

Blobbynator wrote:

Matty Smith was sensational against Warringtion, his best display in a Saints shirt by a mile. His kicking game was immaculate and he changed the game with the the kick for the opening try and the 40/20. He deserved the MOM award in a superb team effort. IMO, he must stay in the side at 7 for the remainder of the year and should Kyle or Lomax return, the other slots in at 6. I have my doubts whether we'll see either again to be honest and there's no need to keep Smith out of the team purely on that basis alone.

Spot on.

Re: Matty Smith : Fri Sep 17, 2010 4:44 pm  

Blobbynator wrote:

Matty Smith was sensational against Warringtion, his best display in a Saints shirt by a mile.

And therein lies the problem. It wasn't "typical Matty Smith" that we saw against Wire as seems to be suggested in some parts, that level of performance shocked most Saints fans who had watched him during his time here, and the Salford fans who have seen a lot more of him in recent months. If we're being honest, I'm not sure many of us thought he could raise his game to that level of performance.

I agree he's worth the 7 in the next game, though.

Blobbynator wrote:

IMO, he must stay in the side at 7 for the remainder of the year and should Kyle or Lomax return, the other slots in at 6. I have my doubts whether we'll see either again to be honest and there's no need to keep Smith out of the team purely on that basis alone.

If Eastmond AND Lomax return (although highly unlikely), Potter has quite the selection predicament.

Re: Matty Smith : Fri Sep 17, 2010 5:14 pm  

Cragganmore Kid wrote:

And therein lies the problem. It wasn't "typical Matty Smith" that we saw against Wire as seems to be suggested in some parts, that level of performance shocked most Saints fans who had watched him during his time here, and the Salford fans who have seen a lot more of him in recent months. If we're being honest, I'm not sure many of us thought he could raise his game to that level of performance.

When he was here last, though, he was mainly potential, wasn't he? He only managed a few first team showings because Longy was still very much around. But quite a few Saints fans saw his potential at that time. He's had two years away since then, developing his game (the point of going out on loan, I thought). It appears to me that some Saints fans didn't take that bit into consideration but were still thinking of him in terms of the potential no.7, rather than the no.7 he is now and could become.

Re: Matty Smith : Fri Sep 17, 2010 5:50 pm  

SaintsFan wrote:

When he was here last, though, he was mainly potential, wasn't he? He only managed a few first team showings because Longy was still very much around. But quite a few Saints fans saw his potential at that time. He's had two years away since then, developing his game (the point of going out on loan, I thought). It appears to me that some Saints fans didn't take that bit into consideration but were still thinking of him in terms of the potential no.7, rather than the no.7 he is now and could become.

I'm not so sure, to be honest.

There weren't many of us shedding a tear at his departure (let's be honest, the 'loan out' was always likely to end up a permanent move away somewhere) and most people - myself included - commented that he'd never be likely to reach "Saints" standard.

Personally I'm still not sure that, consistently, he can. Otherwise there'd be clubs queuing up to rescue him from mid to lower table mediocrity. Wouldn't there?

Re: Matty Smith : Fri Sep 17, 2010 6:12 pm  

Cragganmore Kid wrote:

There weren't many of us shedding a tear at his departure (let's be honest, the 'loan out' was always likely to end up a permanent move away somewhere) and most people - myself included - commented that he'd never be likely to reach "Saints" standard.

I think you (and others on here!) need to separate the people who post on here from the other 10,000 fans who never come on here! I remember two moments where Smith was concerned. One was on the coach travelling to the 2007 Grand Final. I was in a discussion with about a dozen die-hard Saints fans. All of us, without exception, thought Smith should be in the Grand Final and not Longy. We all thought he deserved the opportunity because he'd impressed us all as a young rookie who had coped with the pressure of the playoffs, kicked well, etc. That same group of fans, including me, all bemoaned the fact that Anderson played Longy and not Smith on the night.

The second memory I have is the Hull FC game early in the 2008 season when he kicked a penalty goal from the touchline to win us the match. He was as cool as anything and he had once again played well for us. His goal kicking was very impressive, especially given that we were growing used to Longy's inconsistent boot by then. The gang I stand with at the match (a different group from the one on the coach!) were all for him taking over from Longy at some point as we were all impressed by him.

I didn't see him again after that. He broke his arm shortly after and then Kyle seemed to emerge from nowhere.

So my own experience of Saints fans and their opinions of Matty is different from yours and that is possibly one reason why I was delighted when Matty was brought back for the last game and perhaps you were a little more cautious.

Personally I'm still not sure that, consistently, he can.

Why not? The only way we find out how consistent a player is, is by playing him consistently! I think in some ways Smith has possibly dug his own grave should he be picked for the semi. He performed so well last weekend and no player can possibly give a man of the match performance every weekend. But his critics, or skeptics if you like, will be looking for that and will possibly write him off if he doesn't produce to the same high standard. He certainly looked like a Saints player last weekend, didn't he? However, I personally have every confidence that he can consistently play well at 7. Not always MoM because he's a human being, not a robot, but certainly consistently well enough for Saints to feel a real benefit from him being in the team.

Otherwise there'd be clubs queuing up to rescue him from mid to lower table mediocrity. Wouldn't there?

How many top level clubs have picked players from bottom level clubs recently? Warrington with Myler springs to mind. We have just picked out Shenton (although Cas are probably more a mid table team these days). But I can't think of anyone else, can you? I don't have the best memory though so I could be wrong. However, it seems to me that the traffic does tend to travel more in the other direction.

Just because a team is poor doesn't mean every player is poor. Smith impressed many Saints fans when Salford played against us at the Willows. Presumably he was motivated to play because he has made it abundantly clear he wants to be a Saints player. He's a Saints lad. Have you heard the Podcast? I thought it was quite endearing! But anyway. He will be well motivated if he gets into the semi and if he performs anything like he did last weekend at the semi then he will have put himself well and truly in the shop window, something he has hardly had a chance to do at Salford with the forwards and backline they have, has he?

Re: Matty Smith : Fri Sep 17, 2010 6:24 pm  

I'm not a Smith critic, I actually quite like him. He's a good, solid scrum half and that's exactly the view I held of him when he was at Saints, and the times I've seen him since with Salford and Crusaders. A reliable journeyman, if you will.

And for the record, I wasn't at all cautious about calling him back - I was delighted to have a recognised half back at half back, as opposed to the "make do and mend" approach of having two forwards there.

He was saintsational against Wire but he hasn't performed to this standard with Salford or Crusaders, or even Widnes, with any kind of regularity and the players you mention being plucked from lower teams were plucked because they stood out in those teams. Smith hasn't really, apart from the odd game.

I hope he wins us the Grand Final with a Harry Sunderland winning performance, and proves me entirely wrong. I'd be delighted to admit that I was.

Re: Matty Smith : Fri Sep 17, 2010 8:09 pm  

Cragganmore Kid wrote:

He was saintsational against Wire but he hasn't performed to this standard with Salford or Crusaders, or even Widnes, with any kind of regularity

How do you know? Have you watched him play in all his matches at those clubs? I'm curious because you state it with such certainty.

and the players you mention being plucked from lower teams were plucked because they stood out in those teams.

One player: Myler (because I classed Cas as a mid table team). And exactly how well has he played at Warrington?

Smith hasn't really, apart from the odd game.

Again, I wouldn't know as I haven't watched him. One thing I do know though is that Widnes, Crusaders and Salford don't have the forwards that we do and forwards are important to how well a halfback can play.

But maybe we will get the chance to find out if he can back up his performances in the semi. I doubt Potter will play him if both Eastmond and Lomax are 'fit' (because I don't actually believe either of them will actually be fit!). But if he does get the chance I hope he shows us what he can do a second time so that people stop calling him a journeyman! I think the only journey he has wanted to take is the one on to Knowsley Road pitch wearing the red vee.

Re: Matty Smith : Fri Sep 17, 2010 8:33 pm  

SaintsFan wrote:

How do you know? Have you watched him play in all his matches at those clubs? I'm curious because you state it with such certainty.

I've seen a fair few of them, and have mates who are Widnes season ticket holders (I know, you CAN pick your friends...) and I read the Salford and Crusaders forums. Not staking a claim to having seen every game, but if he was THAT good, I'm fairly sure I'd know.

SaintsFan wrote:

One player: Myler (because I classed Cas as a mid table team). And exactly how well has he played at Warrington?

Again, I wouldn't know as I haven't watched him. One thing I do know though is that Widnes, Crusaders and Salford don't have the forwards that we do and forwards are important to how well a halfback can play.

I've not been too impressed with Myler, personally. But then, I wasn't that impressed with him at Salford. Decent support player sums him up, IMO.

I accept the forwards argument, but even in games that they have won where the forwards have laid the platform, Smith hasn't had the plaudits of, say, Robinson (while at Salford), Ratchford, Sammut, Brough (at Wakey), Orr (Cas) etc. Good players stand out, despite the lack of quality around them.

SaintsFan wrote:

But maybe we will get the chance to find out if he can back up his performances in the semi. I doubt Potter will play him if both Eastmond and Lomax are 'fit' (because I don't actually believe either of them will actually be fit!). But if he does get the chance I hope he shows us what he can do a second time so that people stop calling him a journeyman!

I wholeheartedly agree. I would love him to show us that he can play a major part in us winning the title. I will be the first on here to congratulate him.

Well, maybe not the first - there will be a LOT of beer to be drunk first.

Re: Matty Smith : Sat Sep 18, 2010 10:08 am  

Cragganmore Kid wrote:

I accept the forwards argument, but even in games that they have won where the forwards have laid the platform, Smith hasn't had the plaudits of, say, Robinson (while at Salford), Ratchford, Sammut, Brough (at Wakey), Orr (Cas) etc. Good players stand out, despite the lack of quality around them.

I don't remember any plaudits for Robinson; it's gone quiet over Ratchford since Myler left; Sammut is years older than Smith and has played NRL so really that comparison is unfair; Brough has pretty much disappeared at Hudds and was very moody at Wakey - if he played well, they all did; if he had a shocker (and he had those) then they all did; Orr - I didn't know he attracted plaudits? But anyway. We will see.

To be honest, I think ole Smithy has probably dug himself a bit of a hole. He now has to produce at least the same level of performance to convince people he's Good Enough. If he does get the chance to play next weekend, I hope he can rise to the pressure!

ETA: Bradford have apparently just signed Shad Royston from Halifax so I suppose that's another example of signing up!