Re: England : Tue Aug 11, 2015 12:07 pm  

Twentyman wrote:

He does a decent job for Wigan, keeping them ticking over but at International level he lacks a fair bit of star dust.

I wish Danny Brough and McNamara would sort their stuff out. I rate him as our best half back in SL.

Spot on in every respect.

Re: England : Tue Aug 11, 2015 12:22 pm  

Hardaker
Hall
Watkins
Reed
Burgess
S Tomkins
Widdop
Graham
Roby
G Burgess
Ablett
J Tomkins
O'Loughlin

Hodgson
Hill
Walmsley
Whitehead

Squad: Ratchford, Briscoe, Shenton, Williams, T Burgess, Cooper, Cuthbertson, Currie

Re: England : Tue Aug 11, 2015 12:51 pm  

SFW wrote:

Hardaker
Hall
Watkins
Reed
Burgess
S Tomkins
Widdop
Graham
Roby
G Burgess
Ablett
J Tomkins
O'Loughlin

Hodgson
Hill
Walmsley
Whitehead

Squad: Ratchford, Briscoe, Shenton, Williams, T Burgess, Cooper, Cuthbertson, Currie

I'd have pretty much the same 1st team save for switching Lockers with Cooper (he's been playing loose for the Dragons recently) and J. Tomkins for Bateman (for me the classiest/most talented 2nd rower on the books at Wigan, though he is significantly smaller than Joel).

I wouldn't have Cuthbertson in the squad, however, because I really do believe that the seemingly fluid state of eligibility that is available to RL players at the moment is damaging to the overall international scene. Though it wouldn't be hurting a smaller nation in this instance, I believe that it sets a bad precedence for England RL and further encourages other, more developed (in RL terms) nations to continue to cherry pick developing countries best talents.

Also I might add in Ferres for Ablett if he manages to rediscover his form of a couple of years ago.

Finally I would consider adding LMS to the squad. I don't watch too much of Saints but he always seems to play superb against us (Wigan). If he could carry that over to England then he would be another very attractive option at loose.

Re: England : Wed Aug 12, 2015 7:33 am  

Dr notsostrangelove wrote:

I'd have pretty much the same 1st team save for switching Lockers with Cooper (he's been playing loose for the Dragons recently) and J. Tomkins for Bateman (for me the classiest/most talented 2nd rower on the books at Wigan, though he is significantly smaller than Joel).

I wouldn't have Cuthbertson in the squad, however, because I really do believe that the seemingly fluid state of eligibility that is available to RL players at the moment is damaging to the overall international scene. Though it wouldn't be hurting a smaller nation in this instance, I believe that it sets a bad precedence for England RL and further encourages other, more developed (in RL terms) nations to continue to cherry pick developing countries best talents.

Also I might add in Ferres for Ablett if he manages to rediscover his form of a couple of years ago.

Finally I would consider adding LMS to the squad. I don't watch too much of Saints but he always seems to play superb against us (Wigan). If he could carry that over to England then he would be another very attractive option at loose.

My thinking is more along the lines of needing a third pivot, which I don't think is the strongest aspect of Hardaker's game, nor any 'third prop' in the 13 shirt. Would also consider Wilkin for this role fitness permitting - in fact he'd definitely in at least the squad.

I tend to agree with the sentiment regarding Cuthbertson but that ship looks to have sailed unfortunately, the Pacific teams will continue to be decimated by defections to Aus and/or NZ. If he is eligible and could potentially improve the team then we should pick him.

Ablett is in far better form than Ferres and deserves a starting run IMO, seems to have been around forever without getting a fair run despite consistently producing the goods for Leeds. LMS is very hit and miss, there are more talented and consistent options available to us.

Re: England : Wed Aug 12, 2015 1:51 pm  

A lot will depend upon what style SM wants to play. If he's looking to play an offloading game then Cuthbertson is a must as is pace and footwork in the halves. If he's looking to play a more conservative structured style then he'll probably go with Smith and Widdop in the halves again which would probably mean Sam Tomkins ant FB and Hardaker asked to play centre.

If it was up to me I'd go:

Hardaker
Burgess (very close call with Briscoe)
Reed
Watkins
Hall
Tomkins
Widdop
Graham
Roby
Hill
Whitehead
Farrell
Cuthbertson

George Burgess
Walmsley
Cooper
Bateman

I'd also look to include the likes of Percival, Greenwood, Williams and Ward in the squad. More for the experience than anything else as those four look to be outstanding prospects.

Squad: Percival, Greenwood, Williams, Ward, Tom Burgess, Clark, Smith.

Re: England : Wed Aug 12, 2015 2:02 pm  

If we go with Hardaker at full back i'd want Briscoe on the wing. The back all play at Leeds together so know each others games inside out and would hopefully translate that form to the internationals.

Re: England : Thu Aug 13, 2015 6:21 am  

Cooper is a very good NRL forward nowadays. I personally think McNamara should go for a more attacking team than try to use a Smith/Widdopp combination. Partly because I think we'll need to score points to win, but also because I think England should be good to watch.

The two big problems last year for England were back row (awful and easily the weakest in the competition, with Westerman the best of the second rows by some distance, which isn't saying much) and halfback. If Widdopp is on form and Tomkins is given a go at 7 that would make us look better there, plus we could bring in Jack Reed at left centre (having a storming year for the Broncos). Whitehead apart, back row still just looks naff.

As an aside is Savelio qualified to play for England? If so would it be worth putting him in the squad for experience?

Re: England : Thu Aug 13, 2015 7:28 am  

BrisbaneRhino wrote:

The two big problems last year for England were back row (awful and easily the weakest in the competition, with Westerman the best of the second rows by some distance, which isn't saying much) and halfback. If Widdopp is on form and Tomkins is given a go at 7 that would make us look better there, plus we could bring in Jack Reed at left centre (having a storming year for the Broncos). Whitehead apart, back row still just looks naff.

As an aside is Savelio qualified to play for England? If so would it be worth putting him in the squad for experience?

Savelio is qualified to play for England, as well as NZ and Samoa I believe. I'd get him in before NZ and Samoa attempt to stake a claim to him. He's already played for England u16s and u18s admittedly, but we'll see.

My team would be:
1. Hardaker
2. Joe Burgess
3. Watkins
4. Reed
5. Hall
6. Sam Tomkins
7. Widdop
8. Graham
9. Roby
10. Walmsley
11. Whitehead
12. Bateman
13. Cuthbertson

14. Josh Hodgson
15. George Burgess
16. Chris Hill
17. Liam Farrell

Our props are really strong IMO, quite a nice range of talents too with Graham's passing, Walmsley's line running, Hill's footwork and George Burgess' general freakishness. Our second row isn't particularly strong except Whitehead, Bateman and Farrell are both great workhorses I'd say but I don't think they'll win you a match at international level. Cuthbertson would just play as an offloading third prop as he does for Leeds, with Tomkins and Hardaker sniffing around him. When Cuthbertson needs a rest, Bateman would go to loose and Farrell into the second row. Hodgson has had too good a season in the NRL to leave him out.

In terms of the backs, Watkins has been unreal this year and finally seems to be living up to his potential, but I'm interested to see whether it continues on at international level. Reed has been really good for Brisbane Broncos and is quite a nice contrast to Watkins, and should get Hall lots of ball outside him. Tomkins at 6, he's capable of playing there, and him and Hardaker are both too good to leave out. His main weakness as a stand off would be his lack of kicking game, but Widdop is a very good kicker (the main one for St. George) and both Roby and Hodgson have a passable kicking game.

I think it's a year too early for the likes of Greenwood, Percival and Currie, but I'd consider taking one or two young players with the potential to play internationally for the experience.

Re: England : Thu Aug 13, 2015 7:50 am  

Savelio inclusion is a good idea, I share the concerns regarding the back row and he has the potential to be better than any of our currently available options.

Re: England : Thu Aug 13, 2015 8:06 am  

SFW wrote:

Savelio inclusion is a good idea, I share the concerns regarding the back row and he has the potential to be better than any of our currently available options.

Do you see him as a back rower or a prop though? I can't make up my mind.

DP_wwrlfc wrote:

Greenwood looks quality to me and getting him international game time early will only do him good. He looks like a tailer made international back rower as he has the size Farrell and Bateman (Both are quality as well) lack but also has niggle and aggression.

I think two things Greenwood needs to work on for now are his work rate and his tackling/wrestle. His last 4 matches he's averaged 27 tackles and 68 metres a match. Whitehead 34 tackles and 90 metres a match. Liam Farrell 37 tackles and 114 metres a match. Obviously part of the difference is due to playing styles (with Farrell in particular), but I think Greenwood is great if you are attacking someone's line at the minute, but to be an international second rower he needs to be just as effective carrying the ball in his own half. At the minute as well when he's tackling he can be wrong-footed, leading to a really quick play the ball. He doesn't necessarily miss the tackle, it just isn't a particularly effective one. As much as we criticise Wigan for it, slowing the PTB is huge nowadays but a lot of it comes from getting your footwork right into contact really.