Re: Saints v Hull : Sun May 08, 2016 9:39 pm  

Same question again, is it bad players or the way they are being coached?

Re: Saints v Hull : Sun May 08, 2016 9:57 pm  

Thanks to your fans for their magnanimity after the game today, not for the first time either. Some good chat going back over the bridge.

Re: Saints v Hull : Sun May 08, 2016 10:49 pm  

Is Thompson injured? I've been impressed with him when I've seen him on Sky.

Re: Saints v Hull : Sun May 08, 2016 11:36 pm  

My thoughts were attacking wise we did ok. Made yards up the field and scored some tries.
All the forwards made decent carries.

The backs did as asked, but with no wingers to speak of and the jigglijiggling about for lomax the back 3 were always going to be limited in their effectiveness.

Hull were the better side and have better players, certainly in the pack.
They opened us up in the middle not out wide.

The big fault for us though was defensively. We can’t defend. We leave gaps, we number up wrong. But most importantly their attackers are better than our defenders.

The Greenwood try was a prime example. Greenwood stopped their number 8, but he is just not strong enough to hold him. No other players come in and he gets thrown off.
I'm not going to have a go at Greenwood saying he lacked effort. It's the difference between a 21 year old second rower v a 16 stone prop.

Give it a few more years and Greenwood maybe at a place that Taylor is now and would hold him longer.

But for me we have a lot of Greenwood type players.
Athletic and can run good lines, but one on one against a rampaging big prop they struggle or require numbers to effectively tackle.

This is key for me. Defending in the oppositions half we can throw those numbers in and look decent. But once it crosses the halfway line we stop pouring in with the same vigour. This makes sense as if you did a decent back will exploit the gaps. So it becomes more of a standing line and one on one defence and we don't do that we'll.

When I think about it Amor and Walmsley are our only top line props. We then have Tasi but he does not seem to have added any better than mose in defence. The rest are prospects. 21 year olds who we are way off prime. Ideally you would have one of them in the squad come match day. But we run with 2 or 3 regularly.

We need to pick our top prospect from this bunch and run with them as a bench player. But we have too many props that are second rower material.

Lms is about right for a good second rower, but he came as a prop.
We need more experienced forwards for games like today. Hard working, naturally big and fit. Not young lads barely out of university age trying to bulk up to take on one of the biggest packs in the league.

Personally if I was being harsh. I'd keep Amor, Roby, Walmsley (he's off the boil this year but his operation has put him back) Lms. We then need 2 props a second rower and loose forward, who can mix it with the best.

Then for me Savelio takes a bench spot with your 5th prop filled by your best academy prospect.

Obviously with injuries you will play more youngsters, but let's not fool ourselves that was pretty much a first choice forward pack today and we had 3 youth prospects on the pitch.

I've no doubt they are good, but just like lomax and gaskell, it's too many at once.

Speaking of which that old fella pryce is still going. How many years could we have got out of him. Gaskell and lomax would have been far better to have him as an experienced head around the halves.

Re: Saints v Hull : Mon May 09, 2016 4:55 am  

Saddened! wrote:

Lomax - Largely anonymous, feeling his way back in
Dawson - Did nothing wrong, nothing particularly right either, his usual self
Percival - Pretty poor
Peyroux - An absolute farce of a signing, offers absolutely nothing a generic academy player couldn't
Owens - An absolute disgrace again. Fat, unfit, lazy, poor motivated
Fages - Poor, but we'll let him off
Walsh - Decent again I thought. Getting some of his confidence back, improving
Walmsley - Needs a week off. Shocking today, totally dominated yet again
Roby - Bettered again by his opposite number, he's definitely over the crest of the hill now
Amor - Hard working as ever, but bullied by bigger, stronger forwards as ever
Vea - Very poor, needs to be released
Greenwood - Some good lines, but defends like a child
Wilkin - A few good hard runs in the second half, but some absolutely pathetic attempts to tackle. Needs to be released pronto

Richards - I'd love to know what this useless lump has over KC. He's pathetic, fat and lazy. Thompson, Savelio etc can't get in the side?
LMS - Class again, genuinely the only Saints player who cares
Knowles - Decent young forward. Should be getting more gametime along with Thompson and Savelio at the expense of Wilkin, Tasi, Richards etc
Tasi - Another useless signing. Big unit yet runs like a nun. Needs releasing ASAP

Not much to be positive about was there?

I think, for once, you've pretty much nailed that!

I know lomax has just come back from injury but thought he was very poor, I found myself looking for him wondering if he'd gone off injured. It will take him time to be fair. I'm not a fan of this swapping the defenders around, he moves to the wing in D or whatever they keep doing. It's pretty pathetic, if he's fit to play, he's fit to be in the role of full back....he offers so much more than dawson and owens bringing it back.

Peyroux...laughable. Couldn't even get in the NZ warriors team and saints sign him....just incredible. Same for Tasi, if Salford don't want to keep him then pretty sure he's not good enough for us. Having said that, Tasi is a strange one, I've watched him in the NRL and he was fantastic at times....he has literally been so poor for us, its embarrassing.

I can't talk about Owens and Dawson else I'll end up headbutting my laptop.

I think harsh on Roby, not much he can do on the back of the pussy forwards we have. On the odd occasion we had a quick play the ball, he was onto it....it just hardly ever happened.

Vea...people really rate him, but has he ever been that good? I'm not so sure.

Richards...haha!

Don't be confused by LMS either, granted he probably was the best player with the most enthusiasm but still nothing special....you really do get drawn into that pathetic over the top reactions he does. Don't get me wrong, I'm keen to see passion, but does no one else think it's just so fake, it actually annoys me....you can see the other players rolling their eyes at him. Now, if he does it in the big games against the big teams (I suppose Hull now are) then I'll take it back, but he rarely does. Bang average and not good enough for Saints IMO.

The difference yesterday was the control of the ruck, saints didn't get them on their back like they did to us...hence why Houghton looked so good. For god sake, I would look good with their speed of the play the ball and no markers in position. It was just easy for Hull. Is it me or are we never in position in the markers? Someone is always on the floor or not square, whats going on?!

At the end of the day, the team across the park, could potentially be ok and challenge...I think a new coach would be good and saints could really turn this season around. Obviously not going to happen. We'll finish around 6th and lose in the play offs...zzzzzzz

Re: Saints v Hull : Mon May 09, 2016 5:50 am  

St pete wrote:

He's awful every single week. Not big enough, not strong enough to play in forwards. Not fast enough, clever enough or good enough to play in backs.

Imo needs releasing ( not happening).

From an opponent perspective I thought Wilkin ran the ball in harder than anyone on your side on 3 occasions in the 2nd half.
He was def trying to lead by example and get you back in the game. I'm glad the the rest of your pack never followed his lead.

In fact after the last of those charges you could tell by his ill looking face he looked totally knackered, he had nothing left. The hot day and Hulls pack dominance never allowed him to recover. We never really saw him again after that big effort, or any of his Pack mates.

Re: Saints v Hull : Mon May 09, 2016 6:19 am  

Saddened! wrote:

Lomax - Largely anonymous, feeling his way back in
Dawson - Did nothing wrong, nothing particularly right either, his usual self
Percival - Pretty poor
Peyroux - An absolute farce of a signing, offers absolutely nothing a generic academy player couldn't
Owens - An absolute disgrace again. Fat, unfit, lazy, poor motivated
Fages - Poor, but we'll let him off
Walsh - Decent again I thought. Getting some of his confidence back, improving
Walmsley - Needs a week off. Shocking today, totally dominated yet again
Roby - Bettered again by his opposite number, he's definitely over the crest of the hill now
Amor - Hard working as ever, but bullied by bigger, stronger forwards as ever
Vea - Very poor, needs to be released
Greenwood - Some good lines, but defends like a child
Wilkin - A few good hard runs in the second half, but some absolutely pathetic attempts to tackle. Needs to be released pronto

Richards - I'd love to know what this useless lump has over KC. He's pathetic, fat and lazy. Thompson, Savelio etc can't get in the side?
LMS - Class again, genuinely the only Saints player who cares
Knowles - Decent young forward. Should be getting more gametime along with Thompson and Savelio at the expense of Wilkin, Tasi, Richards etc
Tasi - Another useless signing. Big unit yet runs like a nun. Needs releasing ASAP

Not much to be positive about was there?

A very honest but fair assessment.
re. Roby, I've loved watching him from the moment he burst on the scene, but yesterday, although he's still good,you could see he just wasn't able to what he used to do. What made him top class. But what a great player he's been for you.

Having said that, if you'd have heard Jamie Peacocks BBC match preview, Roby was the key, he was the best, he was the the brains, the organiser, I know Roby has been great for you but JPs Roby-loveathon was a man speaking with his heart not his head of his old GB test mate.

I heard that and thought well.....Danny Houghton best stay in the changing rooms. Glad he had the balls to come out.
I think old JP just got a bit muddled up.

Re: Saints v Hull : Mon May 09, 2016 8:04 am  

What an all round disappoitning day, just over 7,200 in Langtree Park and Hull brought 2,500, yes sunny day & on TV but if 2,500 can travel from Hull and the cost of tickets and travel, around 4,700 Saints fans?

Not sure why Owen was ever signed, more important why is he even playing? though there are suggesitons, LMS gives everything, thought Jon Wilkin was okay, but like Roby they have been too overplayed, the latter was so outplayed by Houghton.

Sorry but Cunningham is not up to the job, recruitment has not been the best, not sure many would know who Rush was? and the owner seems to have his head buried in the sand oblivious?

Re: Saints v Hull : Mon May 09, 2016 8:06 am  

I think people forget that Roby's ability to attack with dummy runs etc is stifled by the fact he has to play the full 80 and tackle like a mad man. Our management have ran that lad into the ground.

Re: Saints v Hull : Mon May 09, 2016 8:25 am  

I don't think your club took the game that seriously to be honest - the fans & the players just didn't seem up for it like we did. I've no idea why exactly (I don't watch Saints every week like you guys), but it just seemed really flat yesterday.