: Fri Apr 03, 2009 1:10 pm  

The Chair Maker wrote:

Mo and Whelan two men of their word

Exactly! The original bastions of morals and integrity.

: Fri Apr 03, 2009 1:13 pm  

Adeybull wrote:

HMRC see it as evasion not a loophole. And as I understand it the reason why its concentrating on overseas players is that you combine it with the "Singapore Parachute" so that the overseas player becomes entitled to the money when he is no longer subject to UK tax but before he becomes subject to tax in his home country - meaning a loss to the UK Revenue, since the income was earned whilst the player was subject to UK tax. So goes the argument, anyway.

Talk in the game for ages was that Saints were one of the clubs making particular use of this device - anecdotal, and time will tell - obviously. I think people who look to Saints also point to Saints (and others, like Wire) appearing to get more bang for their bucks out of the salary cap than some other clubs - that's obviously purely subjective. If indeed CM is right and Saints are running below the "salary cap" this year, again this might be in anticipation of the grossing-up of image rights payments being brought intot he cap spend?

Only those close to the detail will know, and its all speculation at that point - especially from the hack, although my understanding is he's not a million lmiles out.

Saints allegedly running under the cap this year, may as you say be in anticipation of possible charges, it was something i had myself mulled over when i heard about the possible change in tax rules. It may also however be the club tightening its purse strings due to the recession, or in anticipation of pay rises due to young players getting salary boosts.

My personal suspicion is that clubs with large overseas contingents are likely to be hit hardest. Especially if those clubs are running upto the cap limit. Quins for example may be in big trouble.
Saints have had a relatively small number of overseas players since 2005, some like Faasavalu and Talau have made the UK their home.

: Fri Apr 03, 2009 1:35 pm  

The Chair Maker wrote:

Saints allegedly running under the cap this year, may as you say be in anticipation of possible charges, it was something i had myself mulled over when i heard about the possible change in tax rules. It may also however be the club tightening its purse strings due to the recession, or in anticipation of pay rises due to young players getting salary boosts.

My personal suspicion is that clubs with large overseas contingents are likely to be hit hardest. Especially if those clubs are running upto the cap limit. Quins for example may be in big trouble.
Saints have had a relatively small number of overseas players since 2005, some like Faasavalu and Talau have made the UK their home.

All seems pretty reasonable. tbh, I always suspected that the clubs particularly at risk were the ones with the overseas superstars who would take up a disproportionate chunk of cap space - the odd ones at Saints and Leeds obviously, but I always assumed Wire were most exposed especially after they gazumped us for Matt King. They seemed to have denied being involved over the hill at the Piedome a few years ago. If Quins HAVE used this device extensively, then I agree they could be in serious trouble - never really considered fully the possible impact there. Its all Ifs though right now, although I'd love to know why Wilson chose now to stir the pot.

: Fri Apr 03, 2009 1:45 pm  

The Chair Maker wrote:

Mo and Whelan two men of their word

Where it affects HIS money yes.

: Fri Apr 03, 2009 1:52 pm  

Adeybull wrote:

HMRC see it as evasion not a loophole. And as I understand it the reason why its concentrating on overseas players is that you combine it with the "Singapore Parachute" so that the overseas player becomes entitled to the money when he is no longer subject to UK tax but before he becomes subject to tax in his home country - meaning a loss to the UK Revenue, since the income was earned whilst the player was subject to UK tax. So goes the argument, anyway.

They've been looking at overseas accounts for UK residents for a good while now, they started with the big banks and have now seemingly progressed onto smaller ones.

The reason why I find it hard to believe that they are chasing overseas players more is that they'd be far harder to chase down for money, added to the fact that they really aren't bothered if a player has evaded tax in Australia (for example), only in the UK tax.

: Fri Apr 03, 2009 1:52 pm  

Rogues Gallery wrote:

Where it affects HIS money yes.

Apparently Wigan Athletic have been probed in regard to this, what the result was is not known though.

: Fri Apr 03, 2009 1:56 pm  

Well,
You only know what you know, and know what you don't know.
Sometimes you don't know what you know, and don't know what you don't know.

You know what I mean.

: Fri Apr 03, 2009 2:10 pm  

Rogues Gallery wrote:

Well,
You only know what you know, and know what you don't know.
Sometimes you don't know what you know, and don't know what you don't know.

You know what I mean.

Those dreaded unknown unknowns

: Fri Apr 03, 2009 2:12 pm  

Rogues Gallery wrote:

Well,
You only know what you know, and know what you don't know.
Sometimes you don't know what you know, and don't know what you don't know.

You know what I mean.

You are Donald Rumsfeld and I claim my £5...

: Fri Apr 03, 2009 2:14 pm  

Billinge_Lump wrote:

They've been looking at overseas accounts for UK residents for a good while now, they started with the big banks and have now seemingly progressed onto smaller ones.

The reason why I find it hard to believe that they are chasing overseas players more is that they'd be far harder to chase down for money, added to the fact that they really aren't bothered if a player has evaded tax in Australia (for example), only in the UK tax.

They aren't chasing the players.

They are chasing the clubs that paid them, and the PAYE that those clubs allegedly failed to deduct from image rights and similar payments.