Re: Wellens : Sun Sep 12, 2010 3:36 pm  

SaintsFan wrote:

Wellens was never going to be charged. The guy was clearly provoked and he has never been charged with anything so far as I can remember.

But my original point was that the RFL's official stance on retaliation to provocation is "serious" because otherwise it would give the message that players could take the law of the game into their own hands. That's a fair enough stance if your going to follow it through. Provocation can be a mitigating factor, sure.

Wello may whinge too much for my liking (and he does), but he must be one of the cleanest players if not the cleanest in rugby league. I can't remember the last time he was even found guilty of a high tackle.

That's great (not being sarcastic) but really that can only count as a mitigating factor (such as in Radford's case). Good past records don't cancel out an offence on the day. Every offender has a clean sheet before their first offence, even Bailey!

By the way, was Tomkins right to be charged?

Re: Wellens : Sun Sep 12, 2010 3:53 pm  

TheElectricGlidingWarrior wrote:

No I don't think I did, though if I criticised the punishment you'd be right to call me a hypocrite wouldn't you, considering I think Wellens should have been charged. If you're point of view is that Wellens was right to not be charged, would you also extend that to say Tomkins shouldn't have? Or is this Tomkins thing a red herring?

So when your player does a similar thing you keep schtum.
When a Saints player does It you cant shut up.
I think my point Is obvious.

Re: Wellens : Sun Sep 12, 2010 6:39 pm  

I take it that The ElectricGlidingWarrior wants the book thrown at Tomkins for kicking McGuire there.

Should get at least 2 matches for that, though I expect a warning letter will be in the post later in the week.

Re: Wellens : Sun Sep 12, 2010 8:32 pm  

Don Brennan wrote:

So when your player does a similar thing you keep schtum.
When a Saints player does It you cant shut up.
I think my point Is obvious.

I think you're grasping at straws. Not commenting on it is not the same as condoning it or defending it, and I do neither. Can you say the same?

Re: Wellens : Sun Sep 12, 2010 8:39 pm  

Billinge_Lump wrote:

I take it that The ElectricGlidingWarrior wants the book thrown at Tomkins for kicking McGuire there.

Should get at least 2 matches for that, though I expect a warning letter will be in the post later in the week.

It might teach him a lesson. I'm disappointed Maguire left him on the field after that. It was frankly embarrassing and showed him to be something of a liability. I suppose you were expecting me to defend it, but then you're probably judging me by Saints fans' standards.

Re: Wellens : Sun Sep 12, 2010 9:24 pm  

TheElectricGlidingWarrior wrote:

That's great (not being sarcastic) but really that can only count as a mitigating factor (such as in Radford's case). Good past records don't cancel out an offence on the day. Every offender has a clean sheet before their first offence, even Bailey!

I don't know if you have or haven't played rugby in the past or at present. I for one, if somebody was to lead with the elbow and proceed to continue with headbutts on the floor with immediately reply with retalliation. Its human nature to defend yourself when under attack. Yes retalliation can be worse than the original offence, however in the case of wellens it wasn't. If wellens had (like Radford) punched him several times and continued to try after broken up then that may constitute a yellow card. Wellens was merely acting in self defence as Mcgoldrick struck out at him. Anybody who wouldn't reply like that within a heated game situation should consider if rugby is the sport for them. Occosional handbags is part of the game, always has been and always will be. No further action should be taken to either player.

Re: Wellens : Sun Sep 12, 2010 9:25 pm  

TheElectricGlidingWarrior wrote:

It might teach him a lesson. I'm disappointed Maguire left him on the field after that. It was frankly embarrassing and showed him to be something of a liability. I suppose you were expecting me to defend it, but then you're probably judging me by Saints fans' standards.

No, I'm judging you by Wigan fans standards.

Re: Wellens : Mon Sep 13, 2010 6:30 am  

BackrowSaint wrote:

I don't know if you have or haven't played rugby in the past or at present. I for one, if somebody was to lead with the elbow and proceed to continue with headbutts on the floor with immediately reply with retalliation. Its human nature to defend yourself when under attack. Yes retalliation can be worse than the original offence, however in the case of wellens it wasn't. If wellens had (like Radford) punched him several times and continued to try after broken up then that may constitute a yellow card. Wellens was merely acting in self defence as Mcgoldrick struck out at him. Anybody who wouldn't reply like that within a heated game situation should consider if rugby is the sport for them. Occosional handbags is part of the game, always has been and always will be. No further action should be taken to either player.

I don't necessarily think that Raford's actions are a benchmark to use, meaning anything less (which Wellens' arguably was) should go unpunished. In other words, just because it wasn't as bad as something which got a red card, doesn't mean he shouldn't have been charged and dealt with. I understand what you're saying about it being human nature, but at the end of the day they have to be professional and let the referee do his job; plenty of players do manage not to retaliate and I'm sure every other week Wellens is one of them. I totally disagree with the implication that anyone who doesn't retaliate shouldn't be playing rugby.

Also, I don't know if you have access to the game but if you do watch the incident again - there is no evidence of McGoldrick striking Wellens and certainly not of headbutting him. He held onto his shirt in order to hold Wellens down on top of him. Wellens' reaction of two elbows to the face was completely disproportionate.

Re: Wellens : Mon Sep 13, 2010 6:35 am  

Then i suggest you re-watch the game as McGoldrick clearly elbows Wellens in the face once or twice, THATS what got Wellens worked up, but as the RFL disciplinary committee found no case to answer , then they didnt see it a serious as the Radford incident,

Re: Wellens : Mon Sep 13, 2010 6:38 am  

Billinge_Lump wrote:

No, I'm judging you by Wigan fans standards.

lol, all you're missing is a "So ner!" smiley. As it happens there was a thread started over on our board about the Tomkins kick, it was an attempt at trolling but ultimately failed as the vast majority of replies condemned Tomkins' behaviour. In my opinion he made himself and, more importantly, the club look bad.