Re: Clear out - start at top : Wed Mar 30, 2016 3:04 am  

What happened to a "vastly superior" Widnes side pasting our clueless lot?

Re: Clear out - start at top : Wed Mar 30, 2016 8:54 am  

Twentyman wrote:

I think that although Swift's finishing isn't as acrobatic as Makinson (particularly last season), he's much better at dancing around their players near the line to score a try. He's faster, and is probably the only player who can go the length of the field for us.

Its probably Swift and Percival who ask more questions against the opposition defence because of there smart footwork and can break away any part of the field, Tommy Mak is more of a target player with kicks and taking difficult ball off his boot laces and can't fault his efforts. Our wingers don't get a lot of good service because our centres don't get a lot of space with our flat attack and "arm wrestle" pack.

Re: Clear out - start at top : Wed Mar 30, 2016 10:24 am  

Mugwump wrote:

What happened to a "vastly superior" Widnes side pasting our clueless lot?

Silly Boy!!

Re: Clear out - start at top : Fri Apr 01, 2016 6:34 pm  

Hawkandro wrote:

Makinson probably has the edge of Swift in terms of finishing close to the line, but Swift is much better returning the ball and running in open play. Makinson, for all his plus points, is reasonably limited.

I would replace reasonably with very.

Re: Clear out - start at top : Wed Apr 06, 2016 12:22 pm  

I like(d) the idea of Rush as Manging Director (or whatever they call him). Had we gone for a none rugby man, I think we would have all complained that we were neglecting the on-the-field issues. However, the staffing process of our coaching team is an absolute joke. They've just given out jobs to anyone who needs one. Cunningham was in the top-job within 3 years of retiring - we're supposed to be one of the top 10 RL clubs in the world, but we've given one of the most important (if not THE most important) roles to a complete novice because he was a good player.

The bones of the squad (relative to the rest of the league) is a good one -
Makinson, Percival, Turner (centre), Swift, Amor, Sav, Walmsley, Thompson, Roby, Greenwood, Vea and LMS are a wonderful starting point for a squad to be built, but we have some real problems in key positions with no decent full back, a gutless wonder at scrum half and Wilkin doing some pretty bizarre things. Not to mention the baffling approach to our number 6 shirt and Burns/Fages.

Re: Clear out - start at top : Fri Apr 08, 2016 2:29 pm  

Offside Monkey wrote:

I like(d) the idea of Rush as Manging Director (or whatever they call him). Had we gone for a none rugby man, I think we would have all complained that we were neglecting the on-the-field issues. However, the staffing process of our coaching team is an absolute joke. They've just given out jobs to anyone who needs one. Cunningham was in the top-job within 3 years of retiring - we're supposed to be one of the top 10 RL clubs in the world, but we've given one of the most important (if not THE most important) roles to a complete novice because he was a good player.

The bones of the squad (relative to the rest of the league) is a good one -
Makinson, Percival, Turner (centre), Swift, Amor, Sav, Walmsley, Thompson, Roby, Greenwood, Vea and LMS are a wonderful starting point for a squad to be built, but we have some real problems in key positions with no decent full back, a gutless wonder at scrum half and Wilkin doing some pretty bizarre things. Not to mention the baffling approach to our number 6 shirt and Burns/Fages.

I'm not at all convinced. Those players listed, particularly Makison, Turner, Swift, Greenwood, LMS and Vea are all bang average. How many of those would get in Warrington's side? How many would get in Leeds (2nd bottom remember ) side? Salford? Probably none of the ones I listed.

If we had our first choice 17 all season, I reckon we'd be in the fight for 4th place and 4th would be the best they could achieve. The club is rotten to the core at the moment, recruitment, coaching, player development and contract management are all massive failings for the club. KC needs to go, he is just insane, his press ramblings are comical and deluded. For McManus to give him an extension at the start of the year, he must be as well. I've no idea what Rush actually does, but never liked him from when he pretended to be coach. They can take Wello with them as well. It's a club that's gone from being success and entertainment focused to one that has 'being okay' as it's goal. We'd be delighted with 4th and no trophies and that isn't good enough. I've no problem with them trying and failing, they clearly aren't trying.

Re: Clear out - start at top : Fri Apr 08, 2016 2:42 pm  

Saddened! wrote:

I'm not at all convinced. Those players listed, particularly Makison, Turner, Swift, Greenwood, LMS and Vea are all bang average. How many of those would get in Warrington's side? How many would get in Leeds (2nd bottom remember ) side? Salford? Probably none of the ones I listed.

If we had our first choice 17 all season, I reckon we'd be in the fight for 4th place and 4th would be the best they could achieve. The club is rotten to the core at the moment, recruitment, coaching, player development and contract management are all massive failings for the club. KC needs to go, he is just insane, his press ramblings are comical and deluded. For McManus to give him an extension at the start of the year, he must be as well. I've no idea what Rush actually does, but never liked him from when he pretended to be coach. They can take Wello with them as well. It's a club that's gone from being success and entertainment focused to one that has 'being okay' as it's goal. We'd be delighted with 4th and no trophies and that isn't good enough. I've no problem with them trying and failing, they clearly aren't trying.

What's Wellens done wrong?

Re: Clear out - start at top : Fri Apr 08, 2016 2:45 pm  

Being neutral here, i don't see how looking at your squad how you have gone from the likes of Long, Sculthorpe, Newlove, Gidley, Joynt, Lyon etc to the squad you have now. How did you get so many top class players in a salary capped sport? Im not suggesting you cheated the system. How can you have such quality to one that is no where near that standard? I know you have had a stadium to pay for, however you have been at full salary cap the whole time? You must have players who are taking large spaces of salary cap who are not worth that amount? I think you'd agree with that and not trying to put a dig in. That being said, i believe you will probably win tonight. We are not the same team without Sandow. We need his X-Factor to break teams open, we will be like we were last season without him, good at going forward but not able to open up defences.

Re: Clear out - start at top : Fri Apr 08, 2016 3:22 pm  

ComeOnYouWolves wrote:

Being neutral here, i don't see how looking at your squad how you have gone from the likes of Long, Sculthorpe, Newlove, Gidley, Joynt, Lyon etc to the squad you have now. How did you get so many top class players in a salary capped sport? Im not suggesting you cheated the system. How can you have such quality to one that is no where near that standard? I know you have had a stadium to pay for, however you have been at full salary cap the whole time? You must have players who are taking large spaces of salary cap who are not worth that amount? I think you'd agree with that and not trying to put a dig in. That being said, i believe you will probably win tonight. We are not the same team without Sandow. We need his X-Factor to break teams open, we will be like we were last season without him, good at going forward but not able to open up defences.

Have you watched Saints on tv much this year, you would disagree with yourself if you had.
Saints had all that quality of player you named 10 years ago however the salary cap hasn't changed (money wise) since that time. A host of bad bad recruitment decisions, poor coaches enforcing dull rugby (just do our best mentality) have since followed. Wire on the other hand have recruited really well. Likening Wires current side to what happened with saints, if Sandow goes back to NRL, Gidley retires and Currie is also hoovered up by NRL as you have eluded to with Sandow it's a whole different story.
SL is a poor comp now with the salary cap frozen & the better players going elsewhere (not always for money I agree ) then it's not looking like it's getting better anytime soon

Re: Clear out - start at top : Fri Apr 08, 2016 3:52 pm  

ComeOnYouWolves wrote:

Being neutral here, i don't see how looking at your squad how you have gone from the likes of Long, Sculthorpe, Newlove, Gidley, Joynt, Lyon etc to the squad you have now. How did you get so many top class players in a salary capped sport? Im not suggesting you cheated the system. How can you have such quality to one that is no where near that standard? I know you have had a stadium to pay for, however you have been at full salary cap the whole time? You must have players who are taking large spaces of salary cap who are not worth that amount? I think you'd agree with that and not trying to put a dig in. That being said, i believe you will probably win tonight. We are not the same team without Sandow. We need his X-Factor to break teams open, we will be like we were last season without him, good at going forward but not able to open up defences.

There are plenty of reasons. Firstly, there's inflation to take into account. Had the salary cap been adjusted for inflation since it had come in it would be up around £3m now. So, in real terms, we had up to a third more money to spend back then. There were also tax loopholes that clubs were allowed to exploit in paying their players - something to do with image rights. That got closed up in 2009, and was, I think, the main reason why a few clubs like Bradford, London and Wakey nearly went belly up not long after, as they suddenly got landed with hefty back-dated bills from the HMRC. Then there's the fact that union and the NRL were nowhere near as financially powerful when we had all of those players, so we were able to keep hold of them once we'd got them. There's just no way we or anyone else could assemble a similar lineup in the current climate.

That's not to make an excuse for our club's poor recruitment over the last decade, though. When we lost Graham and Eastmond (two young players the club would have built a side around) we replaced them with totally unsuitable big money signings, and, apart from the odd gem like Walmsley and the odd good solid recruit like Amor, we've been shopping at Primark since then. Clubs like Warrington and Hull have shown recently that it's still possible to sign good quality players if you stick your neck out.

I wish I shared your thoughts about tonight's game. I think we might suprise you with how bad we are.