Re: Saints v Hull : Mon May 09, 2016 8:34 am  

Twentyman wrote:

I think people forget that Roby's ability to attack with dummy runs etc is stifled by the fact he has to play the full 80 and tackle like a mad man. Our management have ran that lad into the ground.

A very good point...

I also think its hard for Roby to shine as much in attack when he is playing behind a well beaten pack. Hull's ruck speed was far quicker than ours - they were finding their feet much quicker and leaving 2-3 defenders on the floor at times. This allowed Houghton to look good.

Dont kid yourselves, if this was reversed and our pack had been on top like theirs then Roby would have shone just like Houghton. I think the sad fact is that our own pack is killing off Roby by not gaining quick enough play the balls. Not the first time this season either.

Also interesting that Walmsley doesn't seem to be getting much spoken about him - for a professional athlete (in any sport) to be as unfit as he is isnt acceptable. He takes one drive in a game and then stands for next 30 seconds bent over with his hands on his hips and seems incapable of playing longer than 10 mins at a time (and a good 7-8 mins of those are anonymous). His yards with the ball are poor and defensively he is a liability - his laziness to get onside on 4th tackle gave Hull the penalty they needed in build up to their first try and until that point we had looked half decent. If it was Mose putting in this kind of performance everybody would be up in arms but nobody seems to mention it with Walmlsey - and imo he is worse than Mose ever was currently.

I accept he missed pre-season due to injury and that can have an effect to a certain extent but surely by now he should have caught up more than where he is at. For me, him & Vea are currently the forwards who need dropping more than anyone else as their performances just arent good enough

Re: Saints v Hull : Mon May 09, 2016 10:19 am  

Uppo58 wrote:

A very honest but fair assessment.
re. Roby, I've loved watching him from the moment he burst on the scene, but yesterday, although he's still good,you could see he just wasn't able to what he used to do. What made him top class. But what a great player he's been for you.

Having said that, if you'd have heard Jamie Peacocks BBC match preview, Roby was the key, he was the best, he was the the brains, the organiser, I know Roby has been great for you but JPs Roby-loveathon was a man speaking with his heart not his head of his old GB test mate.

I heard that and thought well.....Danny Houghton best stay in the changing rooms. Glad he had the balls to come out.
I think old JP just got a bit muddled up.

I'd still take Roby over any other hooker in the league. I think he had a very good game yesterday, considering what he was playing behind.

Re: Saints v Hull : Mon May 09, 2016 12:25 pm  

Can we lay off the fans.

It was the biggest attendance of the round by some distance and would still have been without any hull fans turning up.

The way the cup is managed it could still be the biggest attendance when compared to the next round.

Re: Saints v Hull : Mon May 09, 2016 12:39 pm  

Saddened! wrote:

Lomax - Largely anonymous, feeling his way back in
Dawson - Did nothing wrong, nothing particularly right either, his usual self
Percival - Pretty poor
Peyroux - An absolute farce of a signing, offers absolutely nothing a generic academy player couldn't
Owens - An absolute disgrace again. Fat, unfit, lazy, poor motivated
Fages - Poor, but we'll let him off
Walsh - Decent again I thought. Getting some of his confidence back, improving
Walmsley - Needs a week off. Shocking today, totally dominated yet again
Roby - Bettered again by his opposite number, he's definitely over the crest of the hill now
Amor - Hard working as ever, but bullied by bigger, stronger forwards as ever
Vea - Very poor, needs to be released
Greenwood - Some good lines, but defends like a child
Wilkin - A few good hard runs in the second half, but some absolutely pathetic attempts to tackle. Needs to be released pronto

Richards - I'd love to know what this useless lump has over KC. He's pathetic, fat and lazy. Thompson, Savelio etc can't get in the side?
LMS - Class again, genuinely the only Saints player who cares
Knowles - Decent young forward. Should be getting more gametime along with Thompson and Savelio at the expense of Wilkin, Tasi, Richards etc
Tasi - Another useless signing. Big unit yet runs like a nun. Needs releasing ASAP

Not much to be positive about was there?

You don't have talk some shoite. But not this time.

Re: Saints v Hull : Mon May 09, 2016 3:54 pm  

bewareshadows wrote:

Can we lay off the fans.

It was the biggest attendance of the round by some distance and would still have been without any hull fans turning up.

The way the cup is managed it could still be the biggest attendance when compared to the next round.

It is not attacking fans, it is just stating fact recent attendances have been under last years figures for matches, when the team first moved to the new ground many of my friends in Eccleston and Windle started to select their matches they went to, now they go more to the pub for Sky matches, snd yesterday when on the BBC, they say they are not willing to pay the current prices for what is being delivered, the sport is getting less and less real quality stars that you just have to go and watch. I was one person who felt the new ground should have been builtfor 20,000, good job now that was not the decision, times have changed as we have discussed there is now far too much kicking just up into the air and hope for a knock on, some rule changes have not been for the better, this all adds up.

Re: Saints v Hull : Mon May 09, 2016 4:10 pm  

But in comparison to previous years it was a good turn out.

Attendances are well up on KR and that is all with poorer product on show.
Not to mention revenue per ticket must be higher.

Re: Saints v Hull : Mon May 09, 2016 4:38 pm  

wakey_saint wrote:

Hull's ruck speed was far quicker than ours - they were finding their feet much quicker and leaving 2-3 defenders on the floor at times

What is going on with our play the ball??? It's so slow and lumbering, and it's been going on for what feels like a few years now. We used to be all about the ruck speed, winning penalties against teams because they held us down, or couldn't get square, or Cunningham or Roby would make 10 yards from dummy half.

Re: Saints v Hull : Mon May 09, 2016 5:09 pm  

Twentyman wrote:

What is going on with our play the ball??? It's so slow and lumbering, and it's been going on for what feels like a few years now. We used to be all about the ruck speed, winning penalties against teams because they held us down, or couldn't get square, or Cunningham or Roby would make 10 yards from dummy half.

I'm sure there are other reasons, but I think we suffer a lot from having ineffectual and/or small wingers. If you have wingers who can get their upper body through the tackle and dictate the speed of the play the ball on tackle one then you're probably going to get quick rucks for the rest of the set, as it's a snowball effect. If, however, your winger gets dumped on his backside on tackle one (which is what happens every time for us) then you're up against it from the start. People used to dish out some stick to Meli and Gardner, but when we had those two on the wings we got our sets off to a good start.

That doesn't explain how bad we are at controlling the ruck speed in defence, though. There were occasions at the weekend where we actually made dominant tackles but the tackler just got straight up as soon as the 'held' call came from the ref. Whether we like it or not, controlling the speed of the ruck is central to the modern game, and we look completely unpracticed at it.

Re: Saints v Hull : Mon May 09, 2016 5:44 pm  

Twentyman wrote:

I think people forget that Roby's ability to attack with dummy runs etc is stifled by the fact he has to play the full 80 and tackle like a mad man. Our management have ran that lad into the ground.

Houghton has played the full 80 for years, but has suffered from not having the best pack around him.

People recogise his stamina, ridiculous tackling performance and darting runs, but have lamented his seeming inability to take us to the next level regarding organisation, quick play the balls, and game management.

This year, however, is Danny's best ever. He's stepping up to the mark in all those areas described above, and we're winning matches. Why? Has Houghton suddenly learned in 3 months that which he hadn't in the previous 8 years? Of course not.

The simple reason is that he is playing in probably the best pack in the competition this year and is finally able to demonstrate his full potential. We are now seeing his full range of skills which were there all along.

The opposite has happened to Roby this season. He hasn't suddenly become a 'bad player', he is merely suffering from the constraints placed upon him by being amongst a pack that isn't firing. He's having to compensate by doing more donkey work which obviously is going to tire and stunt him. He looks like Danny has for the last few seasons. Solid, good, but not quite there.

Look to the pack for answers, not the 80 minutes. Danny is proving exceptional over 80 minutes every game this season.

Re: Saints v Hull : Mon May 09, 2016 7:03 pm  

Dux wrote:

I'm sure there are other reasons, but I think we suffer a lot from having ineffectual and/or small wingers. If you have wingers who can get their upper body through the tackle and dictate the speed of the play the ball on tackle one then you're probably going to get quick rucks for the rest of the set, as it's a snowball effect. If, however, your winger gets dumped on his backside on tackle one (which is what happens every time for us) then you're up against it from the start. People used to dish out some stick to Meli and Gardner, but when we had those two on the wings we got our sets off to a good start.

That doesn't explain how bad we are at controlling the ruck speed in defence, though. There were occasions at the weekend where we actually made dominant tackles but the tackler just got straight up as soon as the 'held' call came from the ref. Whether we like it or not, controlling the speed of the ruck is central to the modern game, and we look completely unpracticed at it.

I've been banging on about those first carries being so important to the set for years. People was heaping praise on Quinlan, SMD and Makinson for years when they are partly to blame for our sets coming off our line after a kick. That first carrie you need to win contact and win te ptb but those 3 and now Owens are dead on contact which results in the other team slowing the ptb and basically resulting in us making no yardage in that set.

Your correct in that ade and Meli would win contact and win the ptb if they caught it in first place but we now only have swifty who can do this.