: Sun Jul 19, 2009 3:19 pm  

St pete wrote:

Maybe if the club told us, the paying fans the reasons behind lack of recruitment then we would understand.

As nice as it would be to have another fans forum or something similar (if anyone would turn up if another matter) we don't need to rely on an out and out statement as to why we've not bought multiple players per season. The following posts from the recruitment thread a few weeks back, and the recent announcement about the new shares etc should go some way to explaining it. We have a longer term plan.

Rogues Gallery wrote:

Since the Super League Clubs voted with a very large majority in 2006/7 for further restrictions for the good of the homegrown game, the RFL developed the Super League Federation-Trained scheme which was announced in 2007 to apply from 2008. This set of Regulations applies to the Top-25 players at the Club unlike Quota which applies across the whole playing staff.

This Federation Trained scheme involves a parallel system of categorization of players working in addition to and alongside the existing Quota system. It also includes positive discrimination by specifying increasing requirement numbers in each Club’s 25 man squad for Federation-Trained players. As a direct consequence of this required increase in Federation players, there is a corresponding reduction in Non-Federation Trained players as follows:

2008 10
2009 8
2010 6
2011 5

The requirement for Club-Trained numbers in the 25 player squad (within the category of Federation-Trained) is to rise as follows:

2008 5
2009 6
2010 7
2011 8

This will encourage development and utilization of more homegrown players and mitigate against widespread recruitment of additional Kolpak players anyway.

Dux wrote:

for 2010 the limits are:

1. At least 7 players trained at own club. No probs there:

Wellens
Wheeler
Eastmond
Graham
KC (if he carries on)
Roby
Clough
Ashurst
Dixon
Lomax
Moore

I suspect you could also include Gardner and Wilkin, as they joined us at such a young age.

2. Maximum of 6 overseas trained players:

Gidley
Soliola
Meli
Puletua
Flannery
Cayless

Apparently there is now an exemption for players who were already signed up before the new rules were announced in 2007. In which case you could take Meli, Cayless and Gidley off that list.

So we've got 3.

3. Maximum of 5 players who hold a non-EU or non-Kolpak passport:

Gidley
Soliola
Meli
Puletua
Flannery
Cayless

Unless at least one of the above players holds a kolpak passport (perhaps Meli and Puletua might, having both played for Samoa), somebody has to go. Presumably that will be Cayless.

: Sun Jul 19, 2009 3:20 pm  

Carlos Alberto wrote:

Just a pity a section of our fans cannot see the bigger picture and love making knee-jerk decisions.

Exactly, we could easily splash the cash on big named players, but in the long term the policy of recruiting from within will almost certainly pay off with the quality of players we are bringing in

: Sun Jul 19, 2009 3:21 pm  

SaintsFan wrote:

I disagree. The last thing we need is 'journeymen pros'. We need to be focusing on the best over a longer period, not short term solutions that will leave us looking like Wigan. I think what has made things difficult this season is the number of injuries we seem to have found ourselves with. If we hadn't had those injuries to contend with but had been sailing through like Leeds then while we haven't exactly been playing the best rugby league in the history of Saints, we would be a few points ahead at the top and in the semis and functioning fine overall.

What people are suggesting is that we should accept that this season has always been planned to be a write off aimed at bringing through the next generation successfully. Fine, I can accept that. But then how are going to cope with next season when we'll have four or five fewer senior players? Okay we write that season off as a transition phase too? How long does this barren spell last according to this planning? It should be noted that not all young players turn into good senior players. I'd be amazed if any more than one or two of the current crop amount to anything of international quality in the long term.

Is it not a more likely scenario that we are one of the clubs being chased for millions by HMRC and as a result we've had to cut the wage bill considerably?

: Sun Jul 19, 2009 3:25 pm  

Let's face it, the club has over-achieved this season. With the reliance on youth we've done exceedingly well to top the league for the percentage of the season so far and we've pretty much walked into the Semi's of the CC Cup, yet some 'fans' still aren't happy.

If the fans have this attitude, the club won't go anywhere. They'll be wanting Potter out come the end of the season if we don't win anything, and that narrow minded, idiotic, dumb view of things would be a total travesty.

: Sun Jul 19, 2009 3:27 pm  

The Chair Maker wrote:

The club have said why we havent recruited heavily, and its been stated on here numerous times.
1. Salary cap.
2. Putting faith in youth
3. Other players needing salary uplifts as they become senior pros' eg Graham and Roby.

On the subject of signing average joes. Other clubs do this and they are languishing further down the table than us.

Christ! I'm not saying we should sign 5 or 6 world class players!

I'm saying over last year and next we have lost fozzard, talau, scully, longy, cayless and gilmour.

We have signed tony p and got 1 coming in next year.

I understand the likes of graham, clough and other young lads will get better wages as they become regular 1st team players.

The players who have left or are leaving are very highly payed players. So either we got cash to spend or these kids are being well paid.

On the youth policy I agree that's the best way to go with all new overseas regulation in place.

These kids need to be playing with older guys for them to develop.

: Sun Jul 19, 2009 3:31 pm  

gateaux wrote:

Exactly, we could easily splash the cash on big named players, but in the long term the policy of recruiting from within will almost certainly pay off with the quality of players we are bringing in

IMO recruiting from within the club is all well and good if that's the way saints are going but I hope sir mac understands them money paying trips to wembley and old Trafford may be put on hold for 3-4 years while they develop.

It would make sense to have a blend of youth and the older guys.

: Sun Jul 19, 2009 3:36 pm  

Carlos Alberto wrote:

Let's face it, the club has over-achieved this season. With the reliance on youth we've done exceedingly well to top the league for the percentage of the season so far and we've pretty much walked into the Semi's of the CC Cup, yet some 'fans' still aren't happy.

If the fans have this attitude, the club won't go anywhere. They'll be wanting Potter out come the end of the season if we don't win anything, and that narrow minded, idiotic, dumb view of things would be a total travesty.

some fans are already calling for his head. I'm not 1 of them.

Potter got tough job on his hands and is doing ok.

Just hope the fans can see this isn't the team we had 3,4,5 years ago which was full of superstars.

: Sun Jul 19, 2009 3:42 pm  

I imagine it will be because a majority of the fans will have been brought to Saints during the SL period. It's only right that if all you know is success, failing will turn them off and make them revolt/complain.

Hopefully they'll start to see the bigger picture soon though.

: Sun Jul 19, 2009 3:42 pm  

Saddened! wrote:

What people are suggesting is that we should accept that this season has always been planned to be a write off aimed at bringing through the next generation successfully.

No. No-one has said this season is to be a write-off. It has been planned, yes, but not as a write-off. The club was quite open about its policy when it recruited Potter and McManus has spoken about it a couple of times since. But that doesn't equate to a write-off. If anything is going to write this season off for Saints it will be the injuries, not the young players or the transition between the old team and the new.

I think it will probably take two or three seasons to fully integrate our new players with our more experienced ones, assuming our more experienced players stay around.

It should be noted that not all young players turn into good senior players. I'd be amazed if any more than one or two of the current crop amount to anything of international quality in the long term.

So far, I don't think any of them have done a thing wrong. This core group will be added to and subtracted from, as necessary. But for now they are all looking good. Some are looking extremely good.

: Sun Jul 19, 2009 4:00 pm  

Id agree with what saintsfan says.

We have a good starting 17 that IMO is best starting 17 in super league.

We also got some great young kids in eastmond, wheeler and lomax.

The problem is when we have to play to many youngsters together in the team due to players out injured.

That's why 2 more forwards are needed for next season.

I don't think it helps these kids plaing in a team with regular 1st teamers out.

But if sir mac says we can't afford to bring players in then that's how it is, we just gotta get on with it and cheer the young lads on no
matter what happens.