Re: Challenge Cup Semi : Fri Jul 31, 2015 10:38 pm  

I don't think Saints were that bad. They created a few chances but dropped the ball. The pack didn't struggle like in the previous games against Leeds, but the backs are ridiculously average, apart from Percival but, he doesn't get his hands on the ball often enough.
Walsh and Burns look like what they are - shop worn Aussie half backs who have never showed up on the big occasion, but they're not the Achilles heel they're being made out to be, although if Matty Smith or Richie Myler had put in a performance like Walsh, the laughter from the Saints fans would be audible from this side of the hills.

Re: Challenge Cup Semi : Fri Jul 31, 2015 10:40 pm  

tony1983 wrote:

That's like saying if you stop Barcelona scoring, they would be ordinary. Offloading is part of the game and if it was easy, every team would do it like Leeds.

That said, I think you have a gem in Savelio, he was bouncing off tackles.

Obviously Wire beat Barcelona then (twice)!
you must be hoping against hope that HKR win tomorrow.

Re: Challenge Cup Semi : Fri Jul 31, 2015 10:43 pm  

IMO Savelio was excellent for you and a had a better shout for MOM than Sinny. Your lads gave us a game and that wasn't a forgone conclusion until the last 5 - 10 minutes. As a Rhino the thing that struck me as you key weakness was your kicking game. Way to many kicks ended up easily returned by Hardaker. The neutrals I watched it with thought it was a great game.

Re: Challenge Cup Semi : Fri Jul 31, 2015 10:44 pm  

Not at all. Warrington have beaten us twice but we are more than capable of beating them. We want to beat the best teams and Warrington are the only team we haven't beaten this season so bring it on.

Re: Challenge Cup Semi : Fri Jul 31, 2015 10:54 pm  

Regarding the kicking game, it was reminiscent of watching England play the Aussies. It's OK saying Leeds' kicking game was good, and Saints' was poor, but you have to take into account that most of the Saints kicks were defensive kicks, from deep in their own half, and they were kicking to one of the best full backs in the game, and arguably the best around at fielding kicks on the full, Leeds didn't have Paul Atcheson at the back.

Re: Challenge Cup Semi : Fri Jul 31, 2015 11:00 pm  

Well...on paper 4 scores to 3 looks quite competitive but it never felt like we were in it. Their play the ball is so fast. Their offloading is reminiscent of the Saints teams under McRae and Millward. They play the game the right way, and hats off to them.

Our kicking was dreadful. Easy ball for Hall, Hardaker and Briscoe who make so many yards from the kick returns.

It's not nice watching an opposition team play the game the way we've been brought up on with Saints, however, this is a team at their peak and they'll have a transition of their own after Sinfield and Peacock are gone.

We're not a bad side ourselves with the likes of Percival, Savelio, Greenwood and co. So I don't think we should be too downbeat.

Re: Challenge Cup Semi : Fri Jul 31, 2015 11:21 pm  

Twentyman wrote:

Well...on paper 4 scores to 3 looks quite competitive but it never felt like we were in it. Their play the ball is so fast. Their offloading is reminiscent of the Saints teams under McRae and Millward. They play the game the right way, and hats off to them.

Our kicking was dreadful. Easy ball for Hall, Hardaker and Briscoe who make so many yards from the kick returns.

It's not nice watching an opposition team play the game the way we've been brought up on with Saints, however, this is a team at their peak and they'll have a transition of their own after Sinfield and Peacock are gone.

We're not a bad side ourselves with the likes of Percival, Savelio, Greenwood and co. So I don't think we should be too downbeat.

An honest and well judged comment , well said sir .

Re: Challenge Cup Semi : Sat Aug 01, 2015 12:17 am  

Roy Haggerty wrote:

That's what it looked like on the TV, anyway. The halfback who was almost anonymous tonight was Burns ..

Yes. But Burns is not giving the opposition 12-14 points a game because he cannot tackle. Significant - perhaps?

Re: Challenge Cup Semi : Sat Aug 01, 2015 12:45 am  

LOL. There are some major league inferiority complexes in this thread. Almost like the Warrington-are-our-rivals-not-Wigan crowd.

We might have played poorly in the two previous encounters. But I don't have any respect for the argument that we were somehow "vastly inferior" to Leeds tonight. Given the fact we lost both second row forwards (one of which was making hay down the Leeds right channel from the first minute he was introduced, whilst the other is our most dangerous weapon close to the line) I think we played damned well. Walmsley, Sav and Vea (when he was on) were as good as any Leeds player tonight.

This huge gulf that fans seem to have convinced themselves of is ridiculous. Half of Leeds' points were a direct result of one man's inability (for whatever reason) to tackle whilst the other half were undoubtedly influenced by the fact that neither Walsh nor Burns together would equal the tactical maneuvering Jon Wilkin has exerted all season in the halves.

For God's sake - Leeds aren't coming up with anything new here. Offloading in the tackle isn't some near-magical revolution in tactical thinking the likes of which the game has never seen before. Like any tactic it has its weaknesses and its strengths. Don't tell me people's brains have atrophied so much that they've forgotten how you disrupt teams with an offload strategy? Any fool must know you just have to work harder and get bodies between the carrier and receiver and pressure ... pressure ... pressure.

Leeds try to keep the ball in play because they know our big forwards burn up fuel fast (although if the opposition have two props over 35 you have to ask how much advantage should there be?). Now, bearing this in mind what is the ONE strategy any SANE person would NOT expect our playmaker to try ALL NIGHT LONG? Could it be the one, perhaps, which has him kicking the ball down the opposition fullback's throat which just so happens to KEEP THE BALL IN PLAY LONGEST!?!?!?!

What was Walsh THINKING? It's little wonder Alex Walmsley looked dead on his feet 5 mins after the half time break. His playmaker seemed to want to induce cardiac arrest in him!

Re: Challenge Cup Semi : Sat Aug 01, 2015 7:22 am  

Mugwump wrote:

LOL. There are some major league inferiority complexes in this thread. Almost like the Warrington-are-our-rivals-not-Wigan crowd.

We might have played poorly in the two previous encounters. But I don't have any respect for the argument that we were somehow "vastly inferior" to Leeds tonight. Given the fact we lost both second row forwards (one of which was making hay down the Leeds right channel from the first minute he was introduced, whilst the other is our most dangerous weapon close to the line) I think we played damned well. Walmsley, Sav and Vea (when he was on) were as good as any Leeds player tonight.

This huge gulf that fans seem to have convinced themselves of is ridiculous. Half of Leeds' points were a direct result of one man's inability (for whatever reason) to tackle whilst the other half were undoubtedly influenced by the fact that neither Walsh nor Burns together would equal the tactical maneuvering Jon Wilkin has exerted all season in the halves.

For God's sake - Leeds aren't coming up with anything new here. Offloading in the tackle isn't some near-magical revolution in tactical thinking the likes of which the game has never seen before. Like any tactic it has its weaknesses and its strengths. Don't tell me people's brains have atrophied so much that they've forgotten how you disrupt teams with an offload strategy? Any fool must know you just have to work harder and get bodies between the carrier and receiver and pressure ... pressure ... pressure.

Leeds try to keep the ball in play because they know our big forwards burn up fuel fast (although if the opposition have two props over 35 you have to ask how much advantage should there be?). Now, bearing this in mind what is the ONE strategy any SANE person would NOT expect our playmaker to try ALL NIGHT LONG? Could it be the one, perhaps, which has him kicking the ball down the opposition fullback's throat which just so happens to KEEP THE BALL IN PLAY LONGEST!?!?!?!

What was Walsh THINKING? It's little wonder Alex Walmsley looked dead on his feet 5 mins after the half time break. His playmaker seemed to want to induce cardiac arrest in him!

Got to say I agree with this post totally. In addition to the dumb kicking you refer to I would add the equally dumb errors, the most frustrating of which was lazy Mosoe's knock on just when we had all that momentum in the second half. That took it away and we never regained it.

If Wire and Wigan can beat Leeds while being below us in the league then we can beat Leeds but we need the execution, the enthusiasm and the nous in our playmakers to achieve it. Sadly we didn't have any of those things in the right quantity last night and we got what we deserved.