Re: Meli ???? : Tue Oct 11, 2011 11:28 am  

French Ray wrote:

You're not one for giving the opposition any credit, are you?

Why should I?

Burrow deserves plenty of credit for making the break, but if Meli doesn't take the dummy he is either clattered and the break stops or he throws out a high-risk pass without looking which would most likely have gone forward and/or into touch.

Think of it this way. Had Meli made the tackle would Brian McDermott or ANY of the Leeds fans have given Burrow the merest shred of credit given that he'd bombed a certain try (and possibly the match itself) by not giving the ball to his support?

Re: Meli ???? : Tue Oct 11, 2011 11:51 am  

Noone's denying that he can be a liability and has cost us big in a few finals, but the fact remains that he overall brings more positives to the table than negatives - we might very well not even have been in the position of getting to the final in the first place without his (usually) top class contributions throughout the season. And while he contributed to Saturday's defeat he was a long, long way away from being the worst offender, and it is a little galling to see him yet again copping the sole "Designated Scapegoat" role. And there is still frankly noone any better to play at #4 for us either on the market or in the squad until Wheeler proves he can stay fit for any length of time. I dread the next time he lets loose a howler in a big final as much as anyone else, but he's still the best bet we've got sadly.

Re: Meli ???? : Tue Oct 11, 2011 11:58 am  

Northampton_Saint wrote:

And while he contributed to Saturday's defeat he was a long, long way away from being the worst offender, and it is a little galling to see him yet again copping the sole "Designated Scapegoat" role.

Players have to take responsibility and he was a liability on the wing, as he has been at each of our GFs to date. He took a ridiculous dummy to let one try in and missed tackles when we needed him to be on his game due to the injuries. No, he wasn't the only one - Moore let Rob Burrow through, for instance, and Soliola had a poor game, giving away penalties and diving out of the defensive line, etc - but with Meli it is every bloody GF. And on top of that he was doing f-all in taking the ball forward, again. He wasn't the only one there either. TP was bloody useless (and only completed 19 tackles the whole match - criminal for a so-called prop forward; or indeed a second rower).

Re: Meli ???? : Tue Oct 11, 2011 12:40 pm  

I like Meli, I just don't know why.

Re: Meli ???? : Tue Oct 11, 2011 9:40 pm  

SaintsFan wrote:

Players have to take responsibility and he was a liability on the wing, as he has been at each of our GFs to date. He took a ridiculous dummy to let one try in and missed tackles when we needed him to be on his game due to the injuries. No, he wasn't the only one - Moore let Rob Burrow through, for instance, and Soliola had a poor game, giving away penalties and diving out of the defensive line, etc - but with Meli it is every bloody GF. And on top of that he was doing f-all in taking the ball forward, again. He wasn't the only one there either. TP was bloody useless (and only completed 19 tackles the whole match - criminal for a so-called prop forward; or indeed a second rower).

Actually I thought Meli was comfortably our best player at O/T last year (not saying much though), but granted his O/T record against Leeds is pretty shocking... But it is still a fact that he has by no means been the sole offender in any of those finals - it is also a fact that he is always singled out for even the slightest little error he ever makes and every one, no matter how inconsequential, is always jumped on by voracious hordes of Saints fans coiled like springs waiting to have another go at their personal little pinata. I remember the debacle against Harlequins at the start of the season when he was clearly by far the best Saints player on the pitch, running and tackling hard all night and saving a certain try when noone else in a redvee looked as though they could be arsed, and yet because he also ran a kick return out (by trying a bit too hard to try and get some yards off it) he was absolutely lambasted by the serial numpties on a certain other Saints-themed discussion board I used to frequent...

Re: Meli ???? : Tue Oct 11, 2011 9:44 pm  

Northampton_Saint wrote:

Actually I thought Meli was comfortably our best player at O/T last year (not saying much though), but granted his O/T record against Leeds is pretty shocking... But it is still a fact that he has by no means been the sole offender in any of those finals - it is also a fact that he is always singled out for even the slightest little error he ever makes and every one, no matter how inconsequential, is always jumped on by voracious hordes of Saints fans coiled like springs waiting to have another go at their personal little pinata. I remember the debacle against Harlequins at the start of the season when he was clearly by far the best Saints player on the pitch, running and tackling hard all night and saving a certain try when noone else in a redvee looked as though they could be arsed, and yet because he also ran a kick return out (by trying a bit too hard to try and get some yards off it) he was absolutely lambasted by the serial numpties on a certain other Saints-themed discussion board I used to frequent...

Best player in the final last year? His defence with lomax out wide was utter shocking!

Re: Meli ???? : Tue Oct 11, 2011 9:45 pm  

Carlos Alberto wrote:

I like Meli, I just don't know why.

I know exactly why - he has consistently been our only genuine attacking threat out wide for about 3 seasons now (since Gidley got old in fact). Defending against Saints' three-quarters could have been reliably accomplished by 4 traffic cones in that time without him in the squad. Whatever his deficiencies (and God knows they are many and frustrating) we need him in the side for that reason alone.

St pete wrote:

Best player in the final last year? His defence with lomax out wide was utter shocking!

...and he was also the only player to consistently trouble their defence the whole game. Who do you think played better than him on the day because I don't remember any other Saints player turning up?

Re: Meli ???? : Tue Oct 11, 2011 10:44 pm  

Northampton_Saint wrote:

Noone's denying that he can be a liability and has cost us big in a few finals, but the fact remains that he overall brings more positives to the table than negatives - we might very well not even have been in the position of getting to the final in the first place without his (usually) top class contributions throughout the season. And while he contributed to Saturday's defeat he was a long, long way away from being the worst offender, and it is a little galling to see him yet again copping the sole "Designated Scapegoat" role. And there is still frankly noone any better to play at #4 for us either on the market or in the squad until Wheeler proves he can stay fit for any length of time. I dread the next time he lets loose a howler in a big final as much as anyone else, but he's still the best bet we've got sadly.

He'll always be the best we've got if we don't play anyone other than him in the position. The winners of SL are crowned such at Old Trafford. One match. But the competition goes from week one to the GF. We conceptualize OT as something individual but the truth is the entire game is the grand final split into segments with the last one being the final five minutes or so of an array of game segments.

You claim he wasn't the worst offender. I agree. But he WAS the man who blew the match . Again.

If we had a player who cost us the match in the last five minutes of every game we played we'd sack him (I hope). Meli is doing precisely the same but over a longer period. Any other sport would laugh at this farce. Are we really suggesting our game is so shot to pieces we can't find a suitable replacement for an unprecedented walking calamity?

Re: Meli ???? : Wed Oct 12, 2011 12:28 am  

Mugwump wrote:

He'll always be the best we've got if we don't play anyone other than him in the position. The winners of SL are crowned such at Old Trafford. One match. But the competition goes from week one to the GF. We conceptualize OT as something individual but the truth is the entire game is the grand final split into segments with the last one being the final five minutes or so of an array of game segments.

You claim he wasn't the worst offender. I agree. But he WAS the man who blew the match . Again.

If we had a player who cost us the match in the last five minutes of every game we played we'd sack him (I hope). Meli is doing precisely the same but over a longer period. Any other sport would laugh at this farce. Are we really suggesting our game is so shot to pieces we can't find a suitable replacement for an unprecedented walking calamity?

Wow - Philosophical Quasi-Existentialism in an RL discussion thread - who'dve thewt it?

And unfortunately we are very much suggesting that there is no suitable replacement - certainly not one that offers any cutting edge at all (in a backline otherwise lacking in it severely). The stand-in centres almost every team in the entire league have to play with is conculsive and irrefutable proof of this fact.

And do you really think it would have been a good move this season (or next) to play with only Wellens (who you presumably want rid of and replaced with the likes of Ashe asap now) and Shenton in the entire backline with any level of experience or proven game-winning ability at all as would have been the case if we'd released Meli and played the likes of Armstrong there instead? The reason that the likes of Makinson, Foster, Lomax, Gaskell have improved and developed so well and so quickly is that they have had plenty of opportunity to play alongside the likes of seasoned old 'uns like Wellens, Gardner, Meli etc. With your philosophy of trying out random kids to see if any stick instead of Meli, we'd have had hardly any players over the age of 21 in the backs this season at all and they'd have been serially slaughtered every week, killing their collective careers in no time and leaving us struggling even to make the playoffs. Experience in the side is crucial, and the state of the market means that only mediocre experience is readily available. C'est la vie.

Re: Meli ???? : Wed Oct 12, 2011 8:10 am  

Meli peaked in 2006 when we were unstoppable since then he hasn't been worth the shirt