: Wed Jul 15, 2009 4:55 pm  

Blobbynator wrote:

Frodsham is a player who is being touted as a future star, so maybe with time he could develop into a fine forward, we don't know yet.

Indeed. Frodsham hasn't had the good fortune Burgess has to have matured physically at such a young age. Frodsham is a big lad but he still looks a bit like a gangly teenager and at the top level gets knocked around accordingly. Over the next couple of years he should gain a lot of bulk and natural strength and will hopefully be able to make the same impact at senior level that he obviously has in the juniors.

Let's not forget Graham didn't have a Burgess-esque instant impact either. It took a couple of seasons of cameo appearances before he began to make a genuine impression.

: Wed Jul 15, 2009 6:05 pm  

generally props only come into their peak in their mid twenties, and can play to a good standard into their mid 30's, ala steve price and baloo. Graham and burgess are freaks, but couldeasily burn out like fielden. We shouldn't judge Frodsham for a while yet, IMO

: Wed Jul 15, 2009 6:11 pm  

Saint Simon wrote:

generally props only come into their peak in their mid twenties, and can play to a good standard into their mid 30's, ala steve price and baloo. Graham and burgess are freaks, but couldeasily burn out like fielden. We shouldn't judge Frodsham for a while yet, IMO

Also keep in mind the players like peacock who will convert to prop!! I think ellis would be a mean prop!! Have you seen him in the nrl? he's massive!! He was big at Leeds, Now he's just a monster!!

: Wed Jul 15, 2009 6:20 pm  

sgtwilko wrote:

Also keep in mind the players like peacock who will convert to prop!! I think ellis would be a mean prop!! Have you seen him in the nrl? he's massive!! He was big at Leeds, Now he's just a monster!!

well exactly, my point is you cant really judge young forwards too early. I think ashurst could one day be a prop. Even farrell moved to prop and had a good couple of seasons there

: Wed Jul 15, 2009 8:08 pm  

Mugwump wrote:

I'm talking mainly about props. That said, none of the back rowers coming through are in Burgess' class. Don't seem close.

They are not as good as him at the equivalent age, but that doesnt mean they wont end up as good if not better than him in the longer run.
Burgess was and is a physical freak, who was very big at a young age.
I doubt if he will actually develop physically much more than what we get now.

: Wed Jul 15, 2009 8:42 pm  

Blobbynator wrote:

How many Sam Burgess' or James Graham's come along though? They're outstanding players and it's difficult to reproduce top quality players in that mould. Leeds haven't produced a top class prop forward and neither have Wigan, yet ourselves and Bradford have. For that we can be grateful.

We can be grateful, but self-congratulation should be out of our system by now. It's five, perhaps six years since Graham was touted as a potential GB prop. In that time we haven't produced so much as an effective prop. If we carry on at this rate we'll be waiting another twenty years for Graham's successor. And that's not an acceptable scenario.

To have any chance of mounting a serious title challenge you need a great pack. And prop is the most important position of all. They're the guys you base your pack around. Wigan are the perfect example of a team that over the years has had some pretty decent backs which have never had the platform to realise their potential.

Frodsham is a player who is being touted as a future star, so maybe with time he could develop into a fine forward, we don't know yet.

You're right - we don't. And with no word of a replacement for Cayless yet this takes on a slightly worrying significance. Look, I'm not suggesting that every prop or second row we produce should be another Graham or Burgess respectively - but they are the targets we must aim at. Perhaps Dixon & Ashurst will work out - but again, we don't know that. At this moment they're not showing any extraordinary form. Unfortunately we are letting go extraordinary players - Sculthorpe, Gilmour and when you consider his form when he arrived - Cayless. It doesn't take a genius to see a net loss looming.

: Wed Jul 15, 2009 9:54 pm  

Blobbynator wrote:

Leeds haven't produced a top class prop

Didnt Leeds produce Morley?

If burgess or graham do half of what moz has done they will have had a good go at it! Leeds also produced Anderson, fozzard and carvell! Or did you mean in the last few years? Danny ward and bailey have also played for gb and dowes is a very underated frontrower!

: Wed Jul 15, 2009 10:33 pm  

sgtwilko wrote:

Didnt Leeds produce Morley?

If burgess or graham do half of what moz has done they will have had a good go at it! Leeds also produced Anderson, fozzard and carvell! Or did you mean in the last few years? Danny ward and bailey have also played for gb and dowes is a very underated frontrower!

GB Pub teams?

: Wed Jul 15, 2009 10:43 pm  

sgtwilko wrote:

Didnt Leeds produce Morley? If burgess or graham do half of what moz has done they will have had a good go at it! Leeds also produced Anderson, fozzard and carvell! Or did you mean in the last few years? Danny ward and bailey have also played for gb and dowes is a very underated frontrower!

that lad from oldham who joined a wigan junior team?

: Wed Jul 15, 2009 10:46 pm  

Ski wrote:

GB Pub teams?

Wardy is a full international!! If he wasn't anythng like a good prop he wouldn't be within a mile of a brain mac team!! And he just got himself a new contract! But I would think he still likes a good session!! But he has got his game back on track big time