Re: Meli ???? : Wed Oct 12, 2011 8:34 am  

I think Meli has been fantastic up to the Grand Final most years.

Like the rest of this yellow livered lot, there is now an obvious mental block when it comes to Grand Finals.

We won't win another one until the majority of these players have left.

Re: Meli ???? : Wed Oct 12, 2011 11:36 am  

Northampton_Saint wrote:

And unfortunately we are very much suggesting that there is no suitable replacement - certainly not one that offers any cutting edge at all (in a backline otherwise lacking in it severely). The stand-in centres almost every team in the entire league have to play with is conculsive and irrefutable proof of this fact.

Which stand-in centres? Joel Tomkins? Wigan can hardly be expected to find a replacement so quickly for a player they never thought they'd lose. Ablett? Another short term measure. Matt King? If when he was tearing it up in the NRL (playing wing and centre) Matt King had approached Saints saying he'd like to play in the centres anyone would have turned him down? I think not.

No one is suggesting there is an abundance of talent at centre. But it's not quite as dry as the Sahara just yet.

And do you really think it would have been a good move this season (or next) to play with only Wellens (who you presumably want rid of and replaced with the likes of Ashe asap now) and Shenton in the entire backline with any level of experience or proven game-winning ability at all as would have been the case if we'd released Meli and played the likes of Armstrong there instead?

The reason that the likes of Makinson, Foster, Lomax, Gaskell have improved and developed so well and so quickly is that they have had plenty of opportunity to play alongside the likes of seasoned old 'uns like Wellens, Gardner, Meli etc. With your philosophy of trying out random kids to see if any stick instead of Meli, we'd have had hardly any players over the age of 21 in the backs this season at all and they'd have been serially slaughtered every week, killing their collective careers in no time and leaving us struggling even to make the playoffs. Experience in the side is crucial, and the state of the market means that only mediocre experience is readily available. C'est la vie.

First. Yes - it would have been an excellent move. We could have run with Wheeler (who already has plenty of experience) and had - possibly - Armstrong (who also has some experience) as his standby. Wheeler might lack Meli's scoring power but he has plenty of other attributes which more than make up for it. And before you claim Wheeler would have been injured for much of the season leaving only Armstrong we don't know that. Events would have changed and so would the circumstances leading up to Wheeler's injuries.

You seem to forget that most Saints fans (including myself) had written this season off in terms of trophies. It was supposed to be a campaign in which we brought through the kids so any difficulties brought about by such were already factored in.

Personally, I'd much rather see a promising kid try and fail occasionally (along with the consequences insofar as results) than continue to crash into an evolutionary dead end such as Meli.

Re: Meli ???? : Wed Oct 12, 2011 11:43 am  

Saddened! wrote:

Like the rest of this yellow livered lot, there is now an obvious mental block when it comes to Grand Finals.

We won't win another one until the majority of these players have left.

Alas, the majority of our team on Saturday night had not played against Leeds in a GF before. Wello, Wilkin, Jammer, Robes and Meli were the only ones.

I do agree though that we need an injection of new people, preferably prop forwards with aggression.

But we are still going to need some good psychology to get over the pressure that will be on us again should we reach our 7th consecutive GF next season. Some of our young players now have experienced two consecutive losses, which isn't good.

However, this year I am firmly of the opinion that we were cheated; cheated by injuries. For that 20 minutes after halftime we looked better for it than at any other loss. Had Wello, Shenny and Lomax remained fit, I really do think we would have won that match. I haven't thought that previously (although in 2009 we did compete).

Re: Meli ???? : Wed Oct 12, 2011 8:26 pm  

Mugwump wrote:

First. Yes - it would have been an excellent move.

Utter, utter hogwash. Throw a team full of promising youngsters onto the pitch at the start of a season and you'll end up with a team full of shattered has-beens fit only for the National Leagues by the end of it. A blend of experience is crucial in developing youth and it's madness to try to suggest otherwise frankly.

Mugwump wrote:

You seem to forget that most Saints fans (including myself) had written this season off in terms of trophies. It was supposed to be a campaign in which we brought through the kids so any difficulties brought about by such were already factored in.

You may have thought that - I didn't FWIW. I was widely ridiculed last season on the knuckle-scraper Saints' site for suggesting that we still had at least as good a chance in the playoffs as anyone else after the Wire and Harlequins defeats, when everyone else was in full-in doom and gloom meltdown mode. Who feels smug now? Anyway, I think that proves that I know what I'm talking about to at least some degree, so maybe you'd better pay more attention

Re: Meli ???? : Thu Oct 13, 2011 8:16 am  

Carlos Alberto wrote:

I like Meli, I just don't know why.

21 appearences, 12 tries, 14 try assists? Last minute winner against Cas?

He's been great for us through the season and looked like his days of being the scape goat had passed.

I will say through, perhaps shunting him round when players got injured wasn't the best idea, given we have seen his problems with concentration. Centre to wing to other centre, wasn't it?

Re: Meli ???? : Thu Oct 13, 2011 8:33 am  

Offside Monkey wrote:

I will say through, perhaps shunting him round when players got injured wasn't the best idea, given we have seen his problems with concentration. Centre to wing to other centre, wasn't it?

It was basically centre to opposite wing. Initially Lomax went on the wing, which would have been fine had he not been hobbling badly. His appearance on the right wing was pretty quick following Shenton's exit, and signalled the deathknell to our hopes. The only other option Royce had was putting Wheeler on the wing. That was a risk too given that he's hardly played at first grade in months, isn't a winger and it was on HIS opposite side too. Meli should have put on his best game. He's a very experienced player and he's also supposed to be a recognised winger. So the task should not have been too much for him. But as ever it was.

Although it didn't save the day, alas, the rationale behind the back on the bench was well and truly justified on Saturday. Had we not had to stick Meli next to a misfiring Soliola with a penalty machine in Moore and a limping Lomax bringing up the right edge, we had the best chance of winning a GF since 2006. Fooking tragic it is.

Re: Meli ???? : Thu Oct 13, 2011 11:40 am  

Northampton_Saint wrote:

Utter, utter hogwash. Throw a team full of promising youngsters onto the pitch at the start of a season and you'll end up with a team full of shattered has-beens fit only for the National Leagues by the end of it. A blend of experience is crucial in developing youth and it's madness to try to suggest otherwise frankly.

Congratulations on answering the wrong question. I thought I was talking about Wheeler and Armstrong. Two kids who already have a good deal of experience. Wheeler was likely to play a considerable amount of game time anyway.

Perceived wisdom says throwing inexperienced kids at the first team is doomed to failure. But perceived wisdom is very often wrong. Human beings are highly complex organisms - physically and mentally. No one can predict with certainty whether player X (provided he is good enough to be a candidate) is likely to make it or not.

You may have thought that - I didn't FWIW. I was widely ridiculed last season on the knuckle-scraper Saints' site for suggesting that we still had at least as good a chance in the playoffs as anyone else after the Wire and Harlequins defeats, when everyone else was in full-in doom and gloom meltdown mode. Who feels smug now? Anyway, I think that proves that I know what I'm talking about to at least some degree, so maybe you'd better pay more attention

You suggested the team that competed the preceding Grand Final might just make the playoffs? Round of applause, Mystic Meg.

Re: Meli ???? : Thu Oct 13, 2011 11:45 am  

SaintsFan wrote:

Although it didn't save the day, alas, the rationale behind the back on the bench was well and truly justified on Saturday.

Expect him to take two backs on the bench next year

Re: Meli ???? : Thu Oct 13, 2011 1:43 pm  

Mugwump wrote:

ou suggested the team that competed the preceding Grand Final might just make the playoffs? Round of applause, Mystic Meg.

Errr, no.... I predicted we had as good a chance of making the final and winning the whole darn thing as anyone else did - not just that we'd make the playoffs smarty trousers... Now who's answering the wrong question

Re: Meli ???? : Thu Oct 13, 2011 3:23 pm  

Offside Monkey wrote:

Expect him to take two backs on the bench next year

Of just put one on there who might actually contribute. Leon or Armstrong should have been on there. Or Chris Flannery, who was apparently fit.