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 Post subject: Profit
PostPosted: Fri Aug 05, 2016 7:40 pm 
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http://m.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-league/36987631






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 Post subject: Re: Profit
PostPosted: Fri Aug 05, 2016 11:58 pm 
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theblondebomber wrote:http://m.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-league/36987631


Not according to the accounts I downloaded or indeed the club website;

Earnings before interest, tax and depreciation also improved from a loss of £371,211 in 2014 to a profit of £30,715 in 2015.
After those items we again made a large loss although not as large as previous years.
Loss for the financial year £624,279 compared with £1,079,464 in 2014.

Also, this years (2016) finances are not looking too good as McManus says:
"The financial position is undoubtedly more challenging in the 2016 season, deriving largely from a number of months when the rugby results were not as we would hope for and expect. This inevitably had a detrimental effect on crowd numbers and their related revenue streams".

http://www.saintsrlfc.com/news/page/6168

I am not sure what to say except it is disappointing, but not too unexpected.

The club is totally reliant on a loan from Crowther Street Holdings an off shore British Virgin Isles co apparently owned by Mike Coleman of £11.9M.

This loan bears interest and is repayable in full by 31/10/18.
there seems to be not much chance of the club being able to do that id it losing money. More likely Mr. Coleman can convert his loan into shares at any time which would give him the vast majority of the ownership of the club, which he deserves for putting nearly £12M into a perennial loss making company.

If he does that, we will be the best capitalised club in SL with no borrowings and no chance of going bust.

Alternatively if he falls out with the rest of the Director's and shareholders and he wants repayment in 2018 then he could call in his security which is all of the club's assets which means he would effectively own all of the club.






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 Post subject: Re: Profit
PostPosted: Sat Aug 06, 2016 8:06 am 
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saint at wire wrote:Not according to the accounts I downloaded or indeed the club website;

Earnings before interest, tax and depreciation also improved from a loss of £371,211 in 2014 to a profit of £30,715 in 2015.
After those items we again made a large loss although not as large as previous years.
Loss for the financial year £624,279 compared with £1,079,464 in 2014.

Also, this years (2016) finances are not looking too good as McManus says:
"The financial position is undoubtedly more challenging in the 2016 season, deriving largely from a number of months when the rugby results were not as we would hope for and expect. This inevitably had a detrimental effect on crowd numbers and their related revenue streams".

http://www.saintsrlfc.com/news/page/6168

I am not sure what to say except it is disappointing, but not too unexpected.

The club is totally reliant on a loan from Crowther Street Holdings an off shore British Virgin Isles co apparently owned by Mike Coleman of £11.9M.

This loan bears interest and is repayable in full by 31/10/18.
there seems to be not much chance of the club being able to do that id it losing money. More likely Mr. Coleman can convert his loan into shares at any time which would give him the vast majority of the ownership of the club, which he deserves for putting nearly £12M into a perennial loss making company.

If he does that, we will be the best capitalised club in SL with no borrowings and no chance of going bust.

Alternatively if he falls out with the rest of the Director's and shareholders and he wants repayment in 2018 then he could call in his security which is all of the club's assets which means he would effectively own all of the club.


It is worth noting that in last years accounts the loans to Colemans holding company were due on 31/10/17. It is clear that this is a place holder for when Coleman wants to come back to the UK/ McManus wants to step down and the share conversion will take place






:CROWN: I am the hash browns of rlfans :CROWN:

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 Post subject: Re: Profit
PostPosted: Sat Aug 06, 2016 7:52 pm 
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I'd imagine it's using pre-tax profits to run that headline.


Lots of companies do so






We can be bold enough to make a stand and do battle for our views and beliefs. But we must strive to be mature enough not to resort to unnecessary personal attacks upon people with opposing views.

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 Post subject: Re: Profit
PostPosted: Mon Aug 08, 2016 1:37 pm 
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Magic Superbeetle wrote:It is worth noting that in last years accounts the loans to Colemans holding company were due on 31/10/17. It is clear that this is a place holder for when Coleman wants to come back to the UK/ McManus wants to step down and the share conversion will take place


Spot on.

Also - "Crowther Street Holdings Limited, a company controlled by M Coleman, a director, has agreed to provide
further financial support as necessary to enable the group to settle its liabilities as they fall due".

Certainly nothing to worry about.






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 Post subject: Re: Profit
PostPosted: Tue Aug 09, 2016 7:41 am 
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How you use figures and statistics to say what ever you want them to say, "The Reporter" lead last week online with Loss, but all the other media seemed to go with profit headline? perhaps some just take for granted what they are fed. It brings home even .more without the Sky TV money, and as I said before that compared to what RU are being paid and their clubs receiving is peanuts

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 Post subject: Re: Profit
PostPosted: Wed Aug 10, 2016 11:42 pm 
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jaybs wrote:How you use figures and statistics to say what ever you want them to say, "The Reporter" lead last week online with Loss, but all the other media seemed to go with profit headline? perhaps some just take for granted what they are fed. It brings home even .more without the Sky TV money, and as I said before that compared to what RU are being paid and their clubs receiving is peanuts


It is a loss albeit a much reduced loss.

The majority of the media just lazily copied and pasted the Club statement into their "Sports News" page. This reported profit was actually the operating profit before Interest of £221,000, Depreciation of £434,000 and
Tax - although tax was NIL because of the loss. The total loss before and after tax was £621,528 which if given in context was around £2.15p per spectator per match.

You are quite right about the Sky money of £21.9M per year (into effect fully from 2017) being a pittance compared to the BT RU contract of £41.66M per year.






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 Post subject: Re: Profit
PostPosted: Thu Aug 11, 2016 8:46 am 
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saint at wire wrote:It is a loss albeit a much reduced loss.

The majority of the media just lazily copied and pasted the Club statement into their "Sports News" page. This reported profit was actually the operating profit before Interest of £221,000, Depreciation of £434,000 and
Tax - although tax was NIL because of the loss. The total loss before and after tax was £621,528 which if given in context was around £2.15p per spectator per match.

You are quite right about the Sky money of £21.9M per year (into effect fully from 2017) being a pittance compared to the BT RU contract of £41.66M per year.



Yes it is a reduced loss, but this season in the 2016 accounts may be a little concern.

We also forgot about the BT contract to The RU Premiership which was rumoured to be an 80% excess of the previous contract £152 million??

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 Post subject: Re: Profit
PostPosted: Sat Jun 01, 2019 4:00 pm 
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Interesting the Press Release issued this morning by St Helens to season ticket holders then online.

https://www.saintsrlfc.com/2019/06/01/s ... -finances/

Sharegoldings enlarged? Shares taken by Crowther Street Holdings for outstanding money owed, but they also agreed in order that Chairman MacManus and his family’s existing shareholding remaining significant

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 Post subject: Re: Profit
PostPosted: Thu Jun 06, 2019 11:09 pm 
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jaybs wrote:Interesting the Press Release issued this morning by St Helens to season ticket holders then online.

https://www.saintsrlfc.com/2019/06/01/s ... -finances/

Sharegoldings enlarged? Shares taken by Crowther Street Holdings for outstanding money owed, but they also agreed in order that Chairman MacManus and his family’s existing shareholding remaining significant

This to me, seems one of the better success stories of RL in the last 20+ years. I took my daughter to the Play-off game at KR back in 2003 along with about 7,000 other folkand whilst it was nice to see the ground, it wasn't fit for purpose. Fast Forward 16 years and St Helens, through the benevolence of a few have built themselves a new stadium and are debt free with an average gate of close to 12k.
I look at the overall investment required to make this happen and I then wince at the level of Investment David Hughes has wasted at London......RL often suffers from a lack of Joined up thinking, but St Helens are to be applauded for this achievement...

....that said, can we have the 2 points this weekend? We need them more than you do :D






JESUS WEPT :WALL: HOW MANY TIMES?????
£20 a ticket and £15 on beer and merchandise.....so an away fan is worth £35. At best, 1,000 is the average away support split across 11 rounds and I am being really generous here, so Toronto, replacing say Wakefield will cost a SL club £35,000.
The minimum turnover of a SL club is £4,000,000 so Toronto instead of Widnes is worth less than 1% of a SL clubs turnover.

There are many valid reasons for and against expansion into America, but "AWAY FANS" isn't one of them. :BEAT:

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