: Sat Apr 18, 2009 8:45 pm  

I've said before and I will say it again we may not be able to afford to sack Macca but if things carry on as they are ultimately we won't be able afford not to sack him.

: Sat Apr 18, 2009 8:47 pm  

Adeybull wrote:

Be a bit hard to come up with anything workable when you have issues like injuries to queer the pitch?

But common sense could come into play.
Or it could just be tough.

: Sat Apr 18, 2009 8:51 pm  

debaser wrote:

Ok, genuine question...

...do coaches have some kind of performance expectation in their contract? For example, the contract is null and void if the team don't achieve..such and such?

In my job, as in most I should imagine, I have regular performance reviews and if I don't perform to expected standards, I could be sacked. I wouldn't get a big pay off because I'm being made jobless before the end of my contract.

So why is a coach or a player exempt? If you don't perform, why should they expect to be retained or paid off?

Unfortunately professional sportsmen, and their managers, operate in a different world.

Having said that I know of one football league manager who is on a rolling contract, which automatically gets renewed as long as his team finish above a certain position in the league.

It doesn't mean he'd have to be sacked if they didn't manage it, there could be reasonable grounds for the underachievement, but if he is making a balls-up of the job then at least his club aren't stuck with him.

: Sat Apr 18, 2009 8:54 pm  

debaser wrote:

But common sense could come into play.
Or it could just be tough.

Id agree with some form of quantifiable measure of performance in a coaches contract, such as a required win ratio, or reaching certain stages of available comps. With common sense coming in to play to keep the coach if there are very good non quantifiable reasons for the set targets being missed.

: Sat Apr 18, 2009 8:54 pm  

lowes is not the man.
has anyone noticed how well matt calland is doing at halifax?

: Sat Apr 18, 2009 10:06 pm  

Duckman wrote:

Id agree with some form of quantifiable measure of performance in a coaches contract, such as a required win ratio, or reaching certain stages of available comps. With common sense coming in to play to keep the coach if there are very good non quantifiable reasons for the set targets being missed.

I reckon though that this is pretty much covered by a 3 year contract. In that time you'd hope that luck and injuries will average themselves out and the coach will have had the time to let the players that he does not want to leave when OOC and equally bring his own in while also being able to set his own style and manner of play. If he's doing well then great, if not then time for change once his contrct lapses. This should work particulrly well now that relegation is gone leaving the club management to focus on off pitch work and development.

: Sat Apr 18, 2009 10:17 pm  

Block5Bull wrote:

I reckon though that this is pretty much covered by a 3 year contract. In that time you'd hope that luck and injuries will average themselves out and the coach will have had the time to let the players that he does not want to leave when OOC and equally bring his own in while also being able to set his own style and manner of play. If he's doing well then great, if not then time for change once his contrct lapses. This should work particulrly well now that relegation is gone leaving the club management to focus on off pitch work and development.

which is why earlier this year I posted more than once that Mcnamara will effectively sack himself this year with these results if his contract is up at the end of this season as the club could not be seen to extend it with current form. Although if its true he's here next year (still not sure about that) as well then we'd be stuck with him unless we'd put in some clause about win ratio or postions or the like.

And even with a 3 year contract, lets say we'd given steve a 3 year contract in jan 2009, we then get a 20% win ratio from our first 10 games (the current position), then lets say this trend contiunes and we end the season with a 20% win ratio leaving us rock bottom and still contractually bound to honour or pay up his contract for a further two years. If we had a clause that stipulated a 40% win ratio or clubs discression below that mark we could get shut for no cost and he couldn't complain. If I missed targets by 50% at work I would be looking for a new job thats for sure.

: Sat Apr 18, 2009 10:37 pm  

Please take him! Hooker...Coach...Bull Boy, whatever you want jimmy for

: Sat Apr 18, 2009 10:37 pm  

Duckman wrote:

which is why earlier this year I posted more than once that Mcnamara will effectively sack himself this year with these results if his contract is up at the end of this season as the club could not be seen to extend it with current form. Although if its true he's here next year (still not sure about that) as well then we'd be stuck with him unless we'd put in some clause about win ratio or postions or the like.

And even with a 3 year contract, lets say we'd given steve a 3 year contract in jan 2009, we then get a 20% win ratio from our first 10 games (the current position), then lets say this trend contiunes and we end the season with a 20% win ratio leaving us rock bottom and still contractually bound to honour or pay up his contract for a further two years. If we had a clause that stipulated a 40% win ratio or clubs discression below that mark we could get shut for no cost and he couldn't complain. If I missed targets by 50% at work I would be looking for a new job thats for sure.

Possibly. I do agree with what you're saying in terms of demanding accountability of a coach, but am just considering the practicalities as you've also got to bear in mind that any individual taking a job is doing it as his livelihood.

The whole 20% with an overlay of common sense is great in principle, but you always come back to an element of opinion as to what was reasonable to expect given injuries, luck, players inherited, etc.

: Sat Apr 18, 2009 11:05 pm  

Block5Bull wrote:

Possibly. I do agree with what you're saying in terms of demanding accountability of a coach, but am just considering the practicalities as you've also got to bear in mind that any individual taking a job is doing it as his livelihood.

The whole 20% with an overlay of common sense is great in principle, but you always come back to an element of opinion as to what was reasonable to expect given injuries, luck, players inherited, etc.

This is true, and is pretty much why we have the system we have now, a 3 year contract or whatever to be renewed or cancelled depending upon performance like you said earlier, which is already far harsher than a lot of conditions for "normal" jobs, including mine.

I'm not saying its what we definately should do, its just all good for discussion as its been widely suggested (by me as well as notable others) that one of the fundamental reasons Hood cannot replace McNamara easily or painlessly even if he wanted to (and I'm not sure he does want to) is that we cant afford to pay up his and his staffs contracts whilst paying for his replacments as well due to the financial constraints upon the club.

But an element of performance related criteria during the contract length couldn't hurt could it? Tupou was released as he was found in breach of a performance aspect of his contract to all intents and purposes - cant train, cant play, ta ra lad. Cant coach (?), cant win....