: Sun Jun 28, 2009 5:13 pm  

dixie wrote:

I know i'll get shot down by a few, but it seems like this building for the future line has been gaining more voice since it became apparent that this year we really aren't that good, or doing a fair bit worse than the team is on paper.

Can't imagine any Bulls fan is really happy with 11th place.

I don't see why anyone would shoot you down. None of us is "happy" with 11th place - how could we be? - but I think everyone - or most - realises now that whilst we are better than our league position, we are on average indeed not that good. I also thinkthat the details and explanations that have recently emergede from the club - particularly about the youth set-up - has caused this general feeling to gain momentum.

debaser wrote:

I absolutely agree that the long term future and stability is the key to success in the future, but I am concerned at the moment. I do feel that they club have lost a lot of goodwill from the fans by the way the last few seasons have gone.

To a large extent, I agree, though this season is a black sheep one compared with any previous year, but I think that most people would agree that the present incumbents aren't the ones who got us into this state (Harrisgate etc)

debaser wrote:

They need to do a lot more right now to get that feel good factor back or there will be nothing left in the future.
How to do that? That's the key question isnt it? Start winning a few,

I don't really see that we are in a position to do much more. And to say we should "start winning" is hardly helpful. It's not as if we haven't been trying to win up till now and it's not as if there's much else the club can do to flick a switch and "start winning". I also agree very much about the feelgood factor, I have been banging on about this for ages and the show nowadays is for the most part jaded, and the endless piped music is one of the things that has killed the atmosphere. However first, there's no money to do anything of orders of magnitude better, we all know this. And second, one (IMHO) major factor this year is just how much pain the HOME fans have been put through. It may just be the law of avergares, but it has worked out that on far too many occasions the home fans have slunk away really peed off, for one reason or another. I mean, you can be a mid to lower table side yet still win the majority of your home matches, and that's the key to keeping your home fans happy. Away, you're not "expected" to win, but even if you do, (eg Saints) the vast majority of your home fans aren't there to expereince the buzz.

rugbyreddog wrote:

... If you watch the matches they have large periods where they seem incapable of hanging in when it's tough. I don't think that they have the fitness of other teams. I know we hear that they are fitter than they have ever been but it doesn't seem as though they are fit enough.

They do have these spells but I really don't believe it's a fitness thing. If it was, then the next week when they toil like Trojans couldn't happen, as you can't vastly increase your match fitness from week to week. I personally reckon much of the problem is down to lack of confidence, and I also believe that we are not well placed to cover for serious injuries to key men, and that has contributed too. I would certainly agree that repeatedly we have come up with prolonged spells in games (including games where we have otherwise played extremely well) where the defence seems to temporarily dissolve. I can't work it out but it has happened on several occasions, and usually in front of the home fans.

: Sun Jun 28, 2009 8:27 pm  

dixie wrote:

I know i'll get shot down by a few, but it seems like this building for the future line has been gaining more voice since it became apparent that this year we really aren't that good, or doing a fair bit worse than the team is on paper.

Can't imagine any Bulls fan is really happy with 11th place.

may be missing something but didnt building for the future tagline first feature on season ticket letter from burgess last year? maybe wasnt given enough emphasise at time, but hardly something that's just appeared at fans forum

: Sun Jun 28, 2009 9:21 pm  

and you can't really go into a new season saying "we're not going to be competitive for 3 years but when we do it'll be largely based on the academy system, in the meantime stick with it". The majority will not buy season tickets nor turn up with that line so you'd expect the club to put the most positive spin on it they could and focus on the positive (Burgess re-signing, a legend in Menzies coming over). The club could however put out what they expect from the new emphasis on youth development something along the lines of "we expect the extra work put into the youth development to bring through 2-3 to first team action this year and over the next few years".

: Sun Jun 28, 2009 9:27 pm  

Whilst it's all well and good to build for the future, if that future is too far away crowds will eventually drop extremely low if we neglect the first team. McNamara really needs to recruit well for next season if he wants to show me -and i'm sure alot of others- that he still wants to be a top club whilst still putting effort into youth development. There's no reason why we can't do both.

: Sun Jun 28, 2009 9:29 pm  

How long is the 'rebuilding of the club' likley to take?
Did the club need rebuilding?

: Sun Jun 28, 2009 10:00 pm  

mat wrote:

may be missing something but didnt building for the future tagline first feature on season ticket letter from burgess last year? maybe wasnt given enough emphasise at time, but hardly something that's just appeared at fans forum

But which wasn't used at all at the forum in January but come June after a terribly miserable season it was being rammed down our throat all the time.

: Sun Jun 28, 2009 10:02 pm  

Ewwenorfolk wrote:

Whilst it's all well and good to build for the future, if that future is too far away crowds will eventually drop extremely low if we neglect the first team. McNamara really needs to recruit well for next season if he wants to show me -and i'm sure alot of others- that he still wants to be a top club whilst still putting effort into youth development. There's no reason why we can't do both.

Exactly the point I've been making.

: Sun Jun 28, 2009 10:03 pm  

Terry Monster wrote:

How long is the 'rebuilding of the club' likley to take?
Did the club need rebuilding?

No.

: Sun Jun 28, 2009 10:21 pm  

redeverready wrote:

No.

You seem to be up on the academy and reserves, is there anything that is now different now under the stewardship of Macca to when it was when Noble was at the helm in regards to lower grades. There's been a lot of talk that there was a blatent disregard for the academy, is this true and is the academy now in a better position to produce players to the first team?

: Sun Jun 28, 2009 10:50 pm  

"McNamara good, Noble bad" seems to be the accepted mantra when it comes to youth development now, however as we were told the club was losing money hand over fist, while spending up to (and over) the cap when Caisley was in charge - so where exactly were the resources going to come from to employ the coaching/scouting staff for more "focus" on youth development? Does McNamara feel so strongly about it that he is paying for it out of his own pocket? Good man!

As has been said it's good spin to deflect away from the under-performance at first team level across the recruitment, coaching and playing areas. Was McNamara "building for the future" when he brought in McAvoy to block Dave Halley's progress to the first team? Was he "building for the future" when he brought in the erratic Solomona jettisoning Brett Ferres as part of the deal? Has he been "building for the future" by bringing in older second rower after second rower, stifling the progress of Matt Cook?

The good thing about coming up with these slogans is that they do work on plenty of people, but they'll need to come up with some new ones before too long if things don't change on the pitch.