: Fri Jul 31, 2009 1:15 pm  

Bullseye wrote:

Great Players - Average/Poor Coaches:

Garry Schofield
Andy Goodway
Andy Gregory
Graham Steadman
Brad Fittler
Garry Jack
Bob Lindner
Wayne Pearce
Dean Bell

Average/Poor Players - Great Coaches

Peter Fox
John Monie
Ian Millward
Tony Smith
Brian Smith

Where do Steve Mac/Brian Mac/Jimmy Lowes/Brian Noble, etc fit on your list?

[Bullseye]

: Fri Jul 31, 2009 1:46 pm  

debaser wrote:

Where do Steve Mac/Brian Mac/Jimmy Lowes/Brian Noble, etc fit on your list?

All good/very good players, if not greats compared with the others.

As coaches only Noble has done anything of note. The rest have either to prove themselves or have been poor so far.

: Fri Jul 31, 2009 2:36 pm  

Roofaldo wrote:

I disagree with that. Just because someone was a great player it doesn't mean that they'll be a great coach. In football Keegan was a great player but not the greatest of managers. Converselly Ferguson was a fairly average player yet is now the top manager in england.

Which is not what I said.

Bulseye wrote:

Average/Poor Players - Great Coaches

Peter Fox
John Monie
Ian Millward
Tony Smith
Brian Smith

You've picked 5 possible exceptions from the last 20 years, not that I necessarily agree with you. I never said great player, I said top level. Tony Smith played GF IIRC. Millward had to retire through injury, as did Morgan - whcih was the point I was making (badly) about injuries turning players to coaches.
But without checking I would say over 3/4 of SL coaches & probably more in NRL were top level (ie constant high level performers in top teams) players.
Probably a bigger percentage of international coaches were great players.

: Fri Jul 31, 2009 2:54 pm  

Dean Bell wasn't a poor coach IMO. Many people remember him coaching the dreadful 1996 Leeds side that finished 3rd bottom in SL1, but the club were imploding financially at the time, were blighted by the worst injury circumstances I can remember in my time as a Leeds fan, and all the good players left over from the Dougie Laughton years were being asset stripped by other clubs.

IIRC Bell still managed to coach Leeds to a 2nd placed finish in the 1995 centenery season, and managed to arrest the 1996 decline by getting us to finish a respectable 5th in 1997. IIRC he also gave debuts to many current stars such as Terry Newton, Adrian Morley and Kevin Sinfield, and then went on to do good things with the Leeds and Wigan academy set ups.

There's been some discussion about Daryl Powell on the southstander recently - also had many caps for GB but was average as a coach.

At risk of upsetting some on here I'd suggest that McNamara was neither a great player nor a great coach

[Bullseye]

: Fri Jul 31, 2009 3:15 pm  

tigertot wrote:

Which is not what I said.

What you said was utterly confusing.

tigertot wrote:

the point I was making (badly)

Too right!

tigertot wrote:

probably more in NRL were top level (ie constant high level performers in top teams) players.

How about some figures to back it up? It's Friday afternoon after all!

tigertot wrote:

Probably a bigger percentage of international coaches were great players.

But being an international coach is no guarantee of being a good coach is it?

: Fri Jul 31, 2009 4:12 pm  

Trimalchio wrote:

There's been some discussion about Daryl Powell on the southstander recently - also had many caps for GB but was average as a coach.

At risk of upsetting some on here I'd suggest that McNamara was neither a great player nor a great coach

Both Powell and McNamara were thrown in at the top level too soon in my opinion. Powell is doing great things with Featherstone at the moment. I reckon he would have been a better coach at Leeds with a bit of experience in the lower leagues.

: Sat Aug 01, 2009 12:17 am  

bullsonfire wrote:

Both Powell and McNamara were thrown in at the top level too soon in my opinion. Powell is doing great things with Featherstone at the moment. I reckon he would have been a better coach at Leeds with a bit of experience in the lower leagues.

But isn't Powell coming back to coach Leeds when Tony Smith leaves?

: Sat Aug 01, 2009 5:40 am  

Ferocious Aardvark wrote:

But isn't Powell coming back to coach Leeds when Tony Smith leaves?

Yes, along with Iestyn Harris from Cardiff RFC.

: Sat Aug 01, 2009 9:59 am  

debaser wrote:

Where do Steve Mac/Brian Mac/Jimmy Lowes/Brian Noble, etc fit on your list?

Brian Noble was a fantastic player and is a fantastic coach, his records and achievements as a player and coach speak volumes.

: Sat Aug 01, 2009 10:04 am  

bullsonfire wrote:

Both Powell and McNamara were thrown in at the top level too soon in my opinion. Powell is doing great things with Featherstone at the moment. I reckon he would have been a better coach at Leeds with a bit of experience in the lower leagues.

Powell is a good coach in my books, he made Leeds into a force to be reckoned with, although Smith took them to another level. Good player aswell.