[Bullseye]

: Mon Mar 02, 2009 1:21 pm  

af wrote:

OSV. Simple as.

It's the key thing that the club need for a long term future. But I think you're missing my point, fans on the terraces pay to watch the team. You can have the best stadium in SL but if the product on the field is pants and the fans have no favourites then nobody will watch. Look at our opponents on Friday night as prime example.

af wrote:

As for fans' favourites... flippin' heck, if you can't get behind Steve Menzies, a guy even Manly-haters loved...

Menzies is a legend in the game and a step in the right direction but what I'm saying is that we've lost the likes of Vainikolo, Fielden, Pryce who were big personalities and the fans chanted their names and had them on their jerseys. If we can't replace these guys with similar due to finances then we need to promote our own. Recruiting honest toilers is all very well but we're in the entertainment and competitive sport business and you can't expect 12k to turn up each week to watch a team they don't identify with.

I know it takes time to produce players through the system. It's something we've only just begun again recently. All I'm asking for is that we see evidence of these kids coming through this season. That's not too much to ask.

BTW your pic lost me completely!

: Mon Mar 02, 2009 1:27 pm  

magnificent result

: Mon Mar 02, 2009 1:43 pm  

Bullseye wrote:

It's the key thing that the club need for a long term future. But I think you're missing my point, fans on the terraces pay to watch the team. You can have the best stadium in SL but if the product on the field is pants and the fans have no favourites then nobody will watch. Look at our opponents on Friday night as prime example.

I think that the sheer cynicism about Odsal could result in a bigger bump than you might expect if it does happen. However, we do have a problem in that we have successfully conditioned the Bradford sporting publc to think that anything less than the title is 'pants'.

Menzies is a legend in the game and a step in the right direction but what I'm saying is that we've lost the likes of Vainikolo, Fielden, Pryce who were big personalities and the fans chanted their names and had them on their jerseys. If we can't replace these guys with similar due to finances then we need to promote our own. Recruiting honest toilers is all very well but we're in the entertainment and competitive sport business and you can't expect 12k to turn up each week to watch a team they don't identify with.

Remember my youtube idea a long while back (low-tech ads for games featuring the players). Something like that would be cheap (verging on free) and could help establish personalities. Scruton's meant to be a gobsh.te (in a good way) isn't he?

I know it takes time to produce players through the system. It's something we've only just begun again recently. All I'm asking for is that we see evidence of these kids coming through this season. That's not too much to ask.

Halifax 2003 are the cautionary tale. How many of the youngsters they played have gone on to make it? Apart from Rikki? I'd like to see them play, but as long as they're ready.

BTW your pic lost me completely!

If you can't love Menzies you are lacking in heart, IMO. Subtitles for the hard of understanding.

[Bullseye]

: Mon Mar 02, 2009 2:03 pm  

af wrote:

I think that the sheer cynicism about Odsal could result in a bigger bump than you might expect if it does happen. However, we do have a problem in that we have successfully conditioned the Bradford sporting publc to think that anything less than the title is 'pants'.

You're probably right in our case. If it did happen you could probably stage the world's largest streaking event as enough people have said they'd bare their backsides if it came off.

Bradfordians are particularly dour and particularly apathetic. The apathy I think is connected to the decline of the city since the 60s. People have grown to become negative about OSV because its so long since anything of any size was built in Bradford. The coucil must have a warehouse full of plans and artists impressions of buildings and schemes that have never come off. People won't get their hopes up to have them dashed again.

af wrote:

Remember my youtube idea a long while back (low-tech ads for games featuring the players). Something like that would be cheap (verging on free) and could help establish personalities. Scruton's meant to be a gobsh.te (in a good way) isn't he?

A great idea. As was the Menzies t-shirt but the design was pants. The club need to really think about stuff like this while times are hard. If they don't have the expertise or cash to employ anyone then use the fans! While there's a lot of apathy it could soon be removed if we genuinely got people to work together. I fear the apathy isn't all on the fans side of things though.

af wrote:

Halifax 2003 are the cautionary tale. How many of the youngsters they played have gone on to make it? Apart from Rikki? I'd like to see them play, but as long as they're ready.

I see what your saying. I wouldn't be up for playing the kids if it's going to ruin them obviously. Ideally they need to come into a dominant winning side but that's not really going to happen under the current plan is it? I remember Fielden, Peacock, Deacon and Pryce were the light at the end of the tunnel in our poor 1998 season. If they're good enough they're old enough. From what I've seen Crossley is good enough and worth a shot, less sure about the rest. He deserves a go soon I reckon, if anything we'd be able to play Burgess wider where he can be creative with the ball on the fringes, something we're lacking at the moment with Solo out.

af wrote:

If you can't love Menzies you are lacking in heart, IMO. Subtitles for the hard of understanding.

Menzies is a class player, nobody disagrees with you on that.

: Mon Mar 02, 2009 2:13 pm  

OK... I am a bulls fan, but have always had a soft spot for Cas as being a trad RL club who tended to play decent footy, and i have been swept along a bit by their positive marketing, a bit like many people were in 96/97 here in Bradford. Just a few things

1. a special promo for their match V quins meant that including stand transfers, me the wife and 2 kids paid only £19. at Bulls V hull KR on the same day, we would have paid £60!

2. we filled in contact forms on the promo vouchers. they sent us 2 more for the salford game on staurday AND phoned the missus to ask what we liked and disliked about our first visit.

3. the mascots , fire eaters, acrobats, face painting, bouncy castles etc.. ie (all the stuff we are charged for for the kids at odsal) was free!!

4. steve long is in charge of the gameday entertainment (except of course the game). we may be a bit blase about him, and see it as a bit old hat, but he works damend hard at making a game day a good family value day out.

5. Local players playing. Even most of our youth products over the years are not Bradford lads. we need local youngsters, not just lads from heckmondwike (Burgess) or Pontefract (Langley). they are both very committed, but I want my kidsn and other local kids to be saying " I want to be like him, he went to my school" and aspire to be like them. Infact, my son wants to be like his favourite Wakey player, he went to the same school as my son. Yes youve guessed it - Dave Halley!!!!!

6. A traditional ground. am I the only one who prefers some of the older grounds? Weldon Road has character and history and a great atmosphere. which created a better atmos, Central Park or JJB? Boulevard or KC.. let us see Odsal as our home and live with it. improve what we have instead of pie in the sky schemes like the OSV!

: Mon Mar 02, 2009 2:14 pm  

Agree with most posts on here; The problem seems to lie with the lack of offensive potency in the final 30m and a slight lack of dominance in defence at times.

Points we were discussing on the walk back to the car:

1. Surely the likes of Menzies & Morrison have ideas of attacking patterns and plays to bring to the table in training?! Both have many years of top grade NRL rugby under their belts!?
2. A disruptive start - an excuse? Maybe. But preparing to play on the 8th, having it cancelled, that missing last week can't have helped.
3. Negativity. Odsal seems to resemble a morgue during the game (and before). I certainly haven't felt a real "buzz" for a long time.
4. Youth. Agree with Bullseye - this is obviously going to be key going forward with the cap etc. Burgess is the prime example of what can be done and hopefully we'll see more "stars" promoted through the junior ranks. A group of players coming through the ranks and breaking into the first team at a similar time will always have a degree of camaraderie to start with and becomes magnified on a bigger stage.
Leeds have worked this superbly and have reaped the benefits for the last 4/5 years.

It's still only 2 games in....and hopefully we'll start to see some improvement. You'd like to think that they are discussing similar things behind closed doors!

: Tue Mar 03, 2009 8:08 am  

phillgee wrote:

I really don't know why the club are happy with Jeffries at this moment in time. We need a general there to organise the backs and get some moves and passes flowing.

I rated Jeffries as one of the best SHs in SL, enigmatic granted. You lot have seen a lot more of him at Bradford than I have so I will go with your opinions, but I still maintain he is not a SO.
As regards the general, I thought that was what your much vaunted SH was supposed to be brilliant at. IM(well known)O Deacon has always been crap (relatively), now that is open to much argument but what cannot be denied is that since he had a class SO to make him look good he has done absolutely nothing. He has nothing to his game, never has, apart from kicking. You could pick any SH in SL & they would put together a few good performances in a season. Deacon had one decent game last year that I saw, against Hull, when they were easily the worst team in SL & with Wembley on their minds. Why he escapes criticism has always baffled me.

: Tue Mar 03, 2009 8:10 am  

Bullseye wrote:

I've been down to Cas on a few occasions in the past 12 months and was struck by the positivity of the place. Despite their fortunes on the field there's a genuine sense of optimism, especially after they got their franchise. It reminded me of how it used to be for us in the late 90s. They genuinely seem to be improving on the field now too.

That is a good point, it's the same vibe at Wakey ATM. I've experienced it several times at a number of clubs. I think the difference is every time it has been a club who has been in the doldrums for a while & success is not expected or taken for granted, which is not the case at a club who have had the recent glories of Bradford.

: Tue Mar 03, 2009 8:23 am  

tigertot wrote:

I rated Jeffries as one of the best SHs in SL, enigmatic granted. You lot have seen a lot more of him at Bradford than I have so I will go with your opinions, but I still maintain he is not a SO.
As regards the general, I thought that was what your much vaunted SH was supposed to be brilliant at. IM(well known)O Deacon has always been crap (relatively), now that is open to much argument but what cannot be denied is that since he had a class SO to make him look good he has done absolutely nothing. He has nothing to his game, never has, apart from kicking. You could pick any SH in SL & they would put together a few good performances in a season. Deacon had one decent game last year that I saw, against Hull, when they were easily the worst team in SL & with Wembley on their minds. Why he escapes criticism has always baffled me.

i would also agree that Jeffries isn't a stand off, maybe that's an issue that's making him unhappy? Something doesn't seem right with him atm.

: Tue Mar 03, 2009 8:29 am  

phillgee wrote:

i would also agree that Jeffries isn't a stand off, maybe that's an issue that's making him unhappy? Something doesn't seem right with him atm.

I don't think he's unhappy. I think he's suffering from the syndrome known as "taking the money".