Re: Cas 34 Bulls 30, all post-match discussion here : Thu Jul 14, 2011 1:09 pm  

slideby wrote:

I have one issue RE Herbert/ HB situation and would like to know others thoughts. If it is agreed that he is a better SO and we are lacking the organising SH, has Herbert shown more than BJ for the SO role. Herbert is 24 and has shown v good glimses of what we will want from a SO if we sign an organising scrum half. I just dont see BJ EVER leading us to top 4, whereas Herbert can/is improving and his game could kick us on with the right HB partner and some more effective weapons on the fringes. Thoughts?

agree with that re herbert. think herbert may have to be sacrificed to get us the organising half though assuming we have to go overseas. if it was straight preference I'd stick with herbert over jeffries but jeffries has advantage of not counting on quota.

Re: Cas 34 Bulls 30, all post-match discussion here : Thu Jul 14, 2011 1:56 pm  

mat wrote:

agree with that re herbert. think herbert may have to be sacrificed to get us the organising half though assuming we have to go overseas. if it was straight preference I'd stick with herbert over jeffries but jeffries has advantage of not counting on quota.

I'd sooner sacrifice Ah Van to be honest. Ah Van started well but has got worse IMO, albeit not necessarily playing in his best position. What he offers could be offered by others, including the goal kicking. So, if it comes down to a choice between the two, then I'd be looking ot keep Herbert.

Re: Cas 34 Bulls 30, all post-match discussion here : Thu Jul 14, 2011 2:01 pm  

paulwalker71 wrote:

I'd sooner sacrifice Ah Van to be honest. Ah Van started well but has got worse IMO, albeit not necessarily playing in his best position. What he offers could be offered by others, including the goal kicking. So, if it comes down to a choice between the two, then I'd be looking ot keep Herbert.

this is exactly my thought process. An upgrade for Herbert will cost $$$ and a quota when Ah Van has done nothing to suggest he cant be replaced relatively cheaply or with youngsters. Wing is an easy position to fill, and we have 2 others in the role that most people on here rate. herbert is the best we have in his position, is improving and it is the most difficult position to recruit.

Re: Cas 34 Bulls 30, all post-match discussion here : Thu Jul 14, 2011 2:35 pm  

slideby wrote:

this is exactly my thought process. An upgrade for Herbert will cost $$$ and a quota when Ah Van has done nothing to suggest he cant be replaced relatively cheaply or with youngsters. Wing is an easy position to fill, and we have 2 others in the role that most people on here rate. herbert is the best we have in his position, is improving and it is the most difficult position to recruit.

Wouldnt argue with that. But I suspect ah van is going anyway to accomodate another Centre. just get impression he was given chance to make a Centre spot his own and him being moved back to wing says he's failed (combined with way his performances have dropped off last few weeks). Hence if we want a half too then herbert has to go too unless we can fill one off the Centre/half spots with a uk player.

Re: Cas 34 Bulls 30, all post-match discussion here : Thu Jul 14, 2011 3:06 pm  

mat wrote:

Wouldnt argue with that. But I suspect ah van is going anyway to accomodate another Centre. just get impression he was given chance to make a Centre spot his own and him being moved back to wing says he's failed (combined with way his performances have dropped off last few weeks). Hence if we want a half too then herbert has to go too unless we can fill one off the Centre/half spots with a uk player.

good points here. thinking about it, we MAY be better doing that if we can get a top class centre as that would be a massive improvement, and jeffries isnt massively worse than herbert although there is no potential with him. I will be very happy if it pans out that we have to let Herbert and Ah Van go for a top drawer centre and half.

Re: Cas 34 Bulls 30, all post-match discussion here : Thu Jul 14, 2011 3:17 pm  

there maybe more chance of geeting uk player for the Centre spot than the halves one meaning we'd only need to lose one off ah van/herbert to fill the two positions. wonder if theres any mileage in platt/sykes plus cash to salford for ratchford?. wire seem to have gone a bit cool on him and salford fans dont seem over enthused about patten at FB. ratchford obviously isnt finished article but probably one of better british prospects who could be available.

Re: Cas 34 Bulls 30, all post-match discussion here : Thu Jul 14, 2011 3:41 pm  

ive heard that ratchford was wanted by saints and wigan as well as wire plus i thought he was ooc so its more a matter of where he wants to go not what salford accept. id sign matty blythe from wire personally

Re: Cas 34 Bulls 30, all post-match discussion here : Thu Jul 14, 2011 4:21 pm  

Bulliac wrote:

An interesting story in today's (Thurs) T&A, with Connor Murphy bemoaning the lack of an organising scrum hall who bellows out instructions and generally runs the team.

I think he has a genuine point to be honest. Lynchy, as skipper, doesn't really do any organising and, as has already been said, he's only on the field for half the game anyway. Add in Connor's points that our halves are generally more suited to stand off or backing up than being used as organising scrum halves and it suggests where the problems are and the type of player we need to recruit.

As a criticism of what we have it's a well though out piece of journalism and I'm pretty much prepared to go along with it.

This article fails to get to the root of the problem - lack of control when in possession, handling errors, penalties and poor defense. The poor handling and poor discipline made sure the Bulls would be doing a mountain of defense in the second half against Cas. Herbert put on the first 3 tries and had a hand in the fourth. When the forwards completed their sets and we had good field position the halves were great. In the second half the team would have got to their kick on only a few occasions and gave Cas too much ball from stupid penalties and poor ball control. I saw Herbert actually pushing forwards into position and Kearney was yelling at them from behind. No leadership team can get the job done when the troops hand the ball back easily. This is not a game of ' first to 40 ' but it appears the bulls need to have playmakers who can put on 40 points to win, as the ball control and defense is atrocious . I haven't seen Connor do an article on why the forwards are so well beaten most weeks and why the team concedes over 30 points a game. Herbert, Jeffries and Kearney were responsible for, or had a hand in, all the tries last game resulting in 30 points. What more do they have to do before the criticism stops.time to have a serious discussion about the lack of starch in the forwards and why the defensive systems don't work.

Re: Cas 34 Bulls 30, all post-match discussion here : Thu Jul 14, 2011 4:39 pm  

Doesn't he mention the defensive problems and the lack of leadership and dynamism alongside Diskin? I thought he did but you're not wrong in reiterating our pack has been poor all year. Plus nobody is criticisng Kearney.

Re: Cas 34 Bulls 30, all post-match discussion here : Fri Jul 15, 2011 10:14 am  

because Kearney has done nothing wrong -_-