: Tue Aug 05, 2008 12:27 pm  

This takes me back. I was still playing when a similar situation arose in the season after we won the Yorkshire Cup. After the glory of the success thanks to my last minute try our fans became expectant of triumph and I suppose we'd flattered to decieve with that glorious Cup win. Even Eddie Waring jumped on the "Scrap the Yorkshire Cup after this dross" bandwagon remarking that even his own grandmother could have fallen over the line unmarked and that was saying summat because she was dead.

Anyway after a terrible 10 try drubbin infront of our own fans by Rochdale the chairman finally relented and sacked the coach. The coach's day job was as the Chairman's second in command at his abbatoir (where I also worked as a cleaner) which was weird. The Chariman then took the controls and a downward spiral of defeats began. The pressure to perform was relentless and the chairman was driven into going out on late night benders to cope with the pressure. One evening he ended up in an illegal late night gambling den in Tong and was pushed into waging the club against a local businessman's Jag over a hand of poker. Suffice to say he lost and the ruptions from this and the uneasy transition between owners hit the players motivation hard and the team further underacheived.

The new owners brought a new coach in who sacked most of the team and brought his own men in. I survived the chop due to my obvious abilities wel that and I agreed to a 50% cut in pay and the owner was a fellow freemason.

The stress throughout this period of uncertainty made my demons and urges more harder to control and my addictions began to effect my marraige. My wife (now ex. wife the bitch) had gone round all the local shops telling them not to serve me macaroons anymore but my addiction had got so bad that I would go to extraordinary lengths to get my paws on a box of them and a bottle of Cherry brandy. I would travel by bus as far a field as Hebden Bridge, Penistone, Emley and Otley. It all came to a head when on one of these trips to satisfy my vices I ended up on a train from Beverley to Leeds from which I was asked to leave after trying to start a fist fight with a fellow passengers west highland terrior I honestly thought it was Geoff Maclimont who used to bully me at school. I was so out of it on macaroons that I had started to hallucinate.

When the lady took the dog away and ran into another carraige I thought I was back in Mr Wilkinsons office about to get the cane for fighting again whilst Geoff Maclimont the instigator had been allowed off scot free again. I began to cry uncontrollably thumping the ground and stamping my feet. At this point the conductor had called ahead for assistance so as a police officer, conductor and station master manhandled me off the train at Leeds I wet my self mistaking them to be prefects.

As I sat in the police cell as the macaroons and cherry brandy wore off I can clearly remember thinking to myself what the hell has happened to me. I resolved sat in that police cell - naked but for the paper underpants I'd been handed by the police - to finally curb my macaroon and Cherry brandy addiction.


I think it lasted about 6 months before my playing career ended and I fell off the wagon after facing up to the realisation that I was no longer to be a household name and sporting superstar around Cleckheaton!

[Bullseye]

: Tue Aug 05, 2008 12:58 pm  

Tiger Beer wrote:

I can't believe people on here, you've all been so used to success so now we have a blip and its all hang them!! Get a grip! Any money that has been 'spared' has gone onto getting new guys but also towards new deals of those players who have performed...ie Sam Burgess. Where do you think the money has come from to keep him at the Bulls? a tree??? What about increases the wages of the others that we are keeping? Can't expect them to carry on on peanuts do you?

Steady on! Not everyone's calling for blood. I just can't get my head around how the 08 team is on the same sort of cash as the 05 team, given the obvious difference in quality. Obviously Burgess was a priority re-signing but we've managed these in the past without it affecting the quality of the recruitment in the rest of the squad. I remember a big deal being made of Fielden signing a new deal with us after he'd made exactly the sort of breakthrough as Sam. We also went onto sign players like Hape and Vainikolo at the same time so what's going on now?

Tiger Beer wrote:

I wonder what some of you would do if we had a squad like wire who have got the stars but can't even win anything! Wire fans still turn out and support them. Face it we will be waiting a while before we hit the high time again so just ride out the rough times.

We can't win anything either at the moment remember, Wire seem to be higher than us in the table. If anything the two clubs seem to be heading in opposite directions. Whilst I live in hope that our investment in the academy will bear fruit I really worry that by the time those kids come through we'll be back playing in front of crowds of 4000 because standards have been allowed to slip so much with the first team. Then salary cap rules would mean we can't hold onto these great prospects we've been nurturing. We've got to get the balance right between planning for the future and the present. If you allow the first team quality to slip too much then you jeopardize the future.

Tiger Beer wrote:

Yes there may be probs of motivating some of the guys, how do you know Steve isn't motivating them? How do you know he's NOT doing what you all say he SHOULD be doing? i'm sure you'll say "because they aren't performing"....well some of the lads need a kick up the backside......unfortunately i didn't have my boots on sunday to even attempt to do that He is doing his best so give the guy a break. It doesn't matter who the coach is. Another coach can come in say/do the same but it might not change anything. Its the overall mentality that has to change. Rule this season out and we'll see what happens in the next one when Menzies joins us. Tbh if that doesn't give some of them a kick up the backside nothing will!!

Signing one 35 year old (albeit excellent) player isn't going to turn around the fortunes of this squad. More quality is needed especially in the backs. I'm sure McNamara is doing his best but I fear that the quality of player he has to work with is in many cases not good enough to respond. It's not the mentality of some players that needs to change but the players themselves. If people reckon that Menzies can have such an effect on the squad on his own then they're really putting their eggs in one heck of a shaky basket.

Fact is McNamara as coach is ultimately going to carry the can for performances, whether you like it or not. He recruited six players in the off season of rather variable quality so to complain about the mentality of the squad is a bit rich, he's recruited many of them!

It's been an injury ravaged season and McNamara has had a lot to cope with. We've been here in the past in 98. I just hope our response to 08 is the same as it was in 98. After 1998 we signed Henry Paul, Michael Withers, Scott Naylor and David Boyle as well as Nick Zisti (one dud amongst 5 good players). We need a similar response in this close season.

[Pumpetypump]

: Tue Aug 05, 2008 1:21 pm  

I believe someone like John Kear as an expert man manager has the ability to wring out every drop of talent from an otherwise average squad.

Our squad, although no longer of sufficient quality to match the best IS good enough on paper do achieve substantially better results than it has done thus far. For that reason, I'm sorry to say I fell of the fence at the stoop (not because of meths this time). I don't see Macnamara as the man for the job anymore.

: Tue Aug 05, 2008 1:27 pm  

Bullseye wrote:

Fact is McNamara as coach is ultimately going to carry the can for performances, whether you like it or not. He recruited six players in the off season of rather variable quality so to complain about the mentality of the squad is a bit rich, he's recruited many of them!

It's been an injury ravaged season and McNamara has had a lot to cope with. We've been here in the past in 98. I just hope our response to 08 is the same as it was in 98. After 1998 we signed Henry Paul, Michael Withers, Scott Naylor and David Boyle as well as Nick Zisti (one dud amongst 5 good players). We need a similar response in this close season.

Excellent points all round. The incomings to the club this year are vitally important and so far the only rumours are the likes of Nick Scruton and Jamie Rooney, who are not exactly gonna "get the juices flowing" should they actually come on board.

As far as I am concerned, if the quality of signing this off season is as uninspiring as last years one then it makes me feel that, regardless of results, McNamara has been told that he is here for the long haul. After all, if he needs performances to ensure he keeps his job, then we need some names coming in to the club IF POSSIBLE.

Also, if it IS the case that we......

a. have no money
b. cannot attract any quality players
c. are trying to get certain players in but cannot for any reason
d. are in a serious transitional phase and will be unlikely to be in the mix for any trophies for a while

etc.

then why can't the club come out and say this rather than putting positive spin on everything? Fans are more likely to stick by a team if they are aware of what is going on at the said club. I do not expect us to be winning trophies every season, but I also think that it is fair to point out that there was a lot of confidence being spouted at the start of the season by the club, yet, as it is all going horribly wrong, it now seems that we are in a transitional period and will not be competing for a couple of seasons.

What is it to be?

Were fans misled at the start of the season so that they would buy a season ticket?

There is too much uncertainty at the club at the moment and it is not being helped by the performance on the pitch, whatever the reason. It is also time that people within the club started taking some responsibility for what is actually going on at the club.

The council etc are apparantly to blame for the lack of the OSV, the refs are to blame for the losses on the park, Brian Noble is to blame for the lack of funds available and "deserting a sinking ship", Iestyn is to blame for taking up all the cap and more, Chris Caisley is to blame for "trying to get one over on Leeds", Mr Morrison is to blame for not putting his hard earned cash into the club, yet no-one seems to be accountable for the current problems on the field.

It is all well and good having a pop at the fans, but the board and management are hardly covering themselves in glory at the moment. SOME of the fans are indeed moaning at the goings on at the club, but we are no different than the club moaning about everybody being against them at the moment.

If you take the praise and adulation when you are winning, then, by definition, you should take the criticism when things are going wrong.

: Tue Aug 05, 2008 1:37 pm  

Bullseye wrote:

Steady on! Not everyone's calling for blood. I just can't get my head around how the 08 team is on the same sort of cash as the 05 team, given the obvious difference in quality. Obviously Burgess was a priority re-signing but we've managed these in the past without it affecting the quality of the recruitment in the rest of the squad. I remember a big deal being made of Fielden signing a new deal with us after he'd made exactly the sort of breakthrough as Sam. We also went onto sign players like Hape and Vainikolo at the same time so what's going on now?



We can't win anything either at the moment remember, Wire seem to be higher than us in the table. If anything the two clubs seem to be heading in opposite directions. Whilst I live in hope that our investment in the academy will bear fruit I really worry that by the time those kids come through we'll be back playing in front of crowds of 4000 because standards have been allowed to slip so much with the first team. Then salary cap rules would mean we can't hold onto these great prospects we've been nurturing. We've got to get the balance right between planning for the future and the present. If you allow the first team quality to slip too much then you jeopardize the future.



Signing one 35 year old (albeit excellent) player isn't going to turn around the fortunes of this squad. More quality is needed especially in the backs. I'm sure McNamara is doing his best but I fear that the quality of player he has to work with is in many cases not good enough to respond. It's not the mentality of some players that needs to change but the players themselves. If people reckon that Menzies can have such an effect on the squad on his own then they're really putting their eggs in one heck of a shaky basket.

Fact is McNamara as coach is ultimately going to carry the can for performances, whether you like it or not. He recruited six players in the off season of rather variable quality so to complain about the mentality of the squad is a bit rich, he's recruited many of them!

It's been an injury ravaged season and McNamara has had a lot to cope with. We've been here in the past in 98. I just hope our response to 08 is the same as it was in 98. After 1998 we signed Henry Paul, Michael Withers, Scott Naylor and David Boyle as well as Nick Zisti (one dud amongst 5 good players). We need a similar response in this close season.

Excellent points through out.

: Tue Aug 05, 2008 1:42 pm  

mystic eddie wrote:

Also, if it IS the case that we......

a. have no money
b. cannot attract any quality players
c. are trying to get certain players in but cannot for any reason
d. are in a serious transitional phase and will be unlikely to be in the mix for any trophies for a while

etc.

then why can't the club come out and say this rather than putting positive spin on everything? Fans are more likely to stick by a team if they are aware of what is going on at the said club. I do not expect us to be winning trophies every season, but I also think that it is fair to point out that there was a lot of confidence being spouted at the start of the season by the club, yet, as it is all going horribly wrong, it now seems that we are in a transitional period and will not be competing for a couple of seasons.

The same point I made last night it's impossible to have any sympathy for the club when we keep getting told every thing in the garden is rosy. It's the same line Ryan Duckett was using at the Saints game when he was stood in the crowd.

: Tue Aug 05, 2008 1:49 pm  

Shaggoth wrote: I believe someone like John Kear as an expert man manager has the ability to wring out every drop of talent from an otherwise average squad. He's wringing his hands at the moment! http://www.yorkshireeveningpost.co.uk/r ... 4357004.jp

Shaggoth wrote: I believe someone like John Kear as an expert man manager has the ability to wring out every drop of talent from an otherwise average squad. He's wringing his hands at the moment! http://www.yorkshireeveningpost.co.uk/r ... 4357004.jp

: Tue Aug 05, 2008 1:51 pm  

Roofaldo wrote:

But that's one of the main problems people are having with the recruitment under McNamara. We've seen players like Sing go to Hull or King go to Wire. Yet what do we get? Sykes. Platt. Feather. Hardly likely to set the world alight or stir up interest in the team are they?

..

Sing? Sing?? Would this be the Hull that are fighting for the wooden spoon, and the Sing who has got, er, TWO tries all year? That Sing?

And King? Whilst his form has recently taken a slight upturn, the general consensus of all fans all year is what a waste of money. certainly he is unrecognisable as the Matt King who played in the NRL (overrated as he there was). I'm glad we didn't get him. I call it a lucky escape.

Sykes? Well, 13 tries from 21 is hardly bad in supposedly 'such a bad team'. Or is it? Even Platt has got 5, to go with his 14 in his injury-interrupted 2007.

So what is it? Do you have a "grass is greener" complex? Logic states that those two will be significantly cheaper than Sing or King, yet seem to be producing very much more.

As for Feather, he has been cursed with serious injuries and health problems so unless you were Mystic Meg you can hardly cite his case in support of anything.

: Tue Aug 05, 2008 2:04 pm  

mystic eddie wrote:

Excellent points all round. The incomings to the club this year are vitally important and so far the only rumours are the likes of Nick Scruton and Jamie Rooney, who are not exactly gonna "get the juices flowing" should they actually come on board.

As far as I am concerned, if the quality of signing this off season is as uninspiring as last years one then it makes me feel that, regardless of results, McNamara has been told that he is here for the long haul. After all, if he needs performances to ensure he keeps his job, then we need some names coming in to the club IF POSSIBLE.

Also, if it IS the case that we......

a. have no money
b. cannot attract any quality players
c. are trying to get certain players in but cannot for any reason
d. are in a serious transitional phase and will be unlikely to be in the mix for any trophies for a while

etc.

then why can't the club come out and say this rather than putting positive spin on everything? Fans are more likely to stick by a team if they are aware of what is going on at the said club. I do not expect us to be winning trophies every season, but I also think that it is fair to point out that there was a lot of confidence being spouted at the start of the season by the club, yet, as it is all going horribly wrong, it now seems that we are in a transitional period and will not be competing for a couple of seasons.

What is it to be?

Were fans misled at the start of the season so that they would buy a season ticket?

There is too much uncertainty at the club at the moment and it is not being helped by the performance on the pitch, whatever the reason. It is also time that people within the club started taking some responsibility for what is actually going on at the club.

The council etc are apparantly to blame for the lack of the OSV, the refs are to blame for the losses on the park, Brian Noble is to blame for the lack of funds available and "deserting a sinking ship", Iestyn is to blame for taking up all the cap and more, Chris Caisley is to blame for "trying to get one over on Leeds", Mr Morrison is to blame for not putting his hard earned cash into the club, yet no-one seems to be accountable for the current problems on the field.

It is all well and good having a pop at the fans, but the board and management are hardly covering themselves in glory at the moment. SOME of the fans are indeed moaning at the goings on at the club, but we are no different than the club moaning about everybody being against them at the moment.

If you take the praise and adulation when you are winning, then, by definition, you should take the criticism when things are going wrong.

Top post Mystic...ive been attending home games and occasional away games for 35 years, (when shift work allows) and there have been worse times than this, so we are in another re-building period and times are hard again.....we find now who the true supporters are...the crowds now are a blend of people who some will come through hell and high....some will come when the weather is nice some only come to big games..etc etc..but they all have one thing in common and that is that they use there hard earned money and turn up every week when we are winning....
The one thing i keep hearing from people is that the "big names are not being replaced"..so if the club is either..
In fanancial difficulties..
Have a glut of young talent who need to be given a chance..
or have many long term injuries etc etc....
Then the club has to tell the supporters exactly what the situation is ,if they do announce we are giving the young guns a chance please give them your support, my guess is they will support.. if they dont announce anything then only the true supporters will attend...and then it is a slippery slope.

: Tue Aug 05, 2008 2:05 pm  

redeverready wrote:

The same point I made last night it's impossible to have any sympathy for the club when we keep getting told every thing in the garden is rosy. It's the same line Ryan Duckett was using at the Saints game when he was stood in the crowd.

And the club is bound to secure top quality sponsorship with that approach.

If you were in business and looked to sponsor a high profile regional sports club which one would you go for?

1. The club that markets itself as one of the success stories of SL with many SL titles and CCs and who has competed in the play offs every year and still considers itself capable of lifting major honours.

or

2. The club that responds by accepting they've been on the brink of bankruptcy due to massive overspend by the last administration and probably won't win anything for three to four years?

Please either buy the club and invest the millions required or accept that just because you've watched a lot of academy rugby doesn't mean you know anything about bringing a £5million a year business with a money pit for a ground and the slowest most over paid SO in the league back from losing half a million quid a year.