Re: Fans Meeting at City Hall - Mon 7pm : Thu Aug 02, 2012 10:27 am  

Gurus_Beard wrote:

You often post rational, considered reactions. This isn't one of them.

Nobody is "taking the p!ss" from what I see. The problem that I observe is a banal expectation from some fans for the consortiums and RFL to be exact and revealing of the current state of play (including details of all bids and rebuttals) along with details of the RFL's exact support, or otherwise.

Quite simply, this isn't going to happen and wouldn't in any reasonable, prudent business or governing body. It is quite farcical for some fans to be demanding "answers" when their are no answers to give and more critically, why would any savvy business person reveal details of a confidential nature. There needs to be a huge level of realism by some elements that this is a process which has covert elements by definition. You don't write down your chess moves for the opposition.

As for folding, why? Wakefield aren't doing too badly and well done to them. Holding your nerve in these situations is paramount and unfortunately some people are able to do so and others unable.
More importantly, taking a lowest common denominator approach of "we're doomed" will do absolutely nothing to energise anybody or any element of this lengthy, necessary process.

Fingers crossed everything will be fine and possibly, be revealed when it's relevant. I'm not sure that is now.

It is a perfectly reasonable position and not a "banal expectation " to ask for more transparency. We as fans do not need to be told all the commercial details but we do deserve to know answers to a few headline questions from both the bidders and the League. I've given up hope that a journalist will ferret around and reveal anything. It's a pity that we don't have journalists of the calibre of David Conn (Guardian) investigating this whole saga.
I fully realise that life has moved on from the time of the Trevor Foster/Joe Phillips rescue but can't some people take a few lessons from their conduct regarding openness and engaging the fans. More recently both O'Connor and Glover acted in a way which involved the support base rather than taking them for granted.The Rugby League community in total good faith contributed £500,000 to try and save the Bulls -- those contributors (not just Bulls fans) deserve better. The Rugby League and trade media were quick to point out how wonderful our sport was at that time-- we're repaid by the confusion of the past 3 months.
Incidentally this thread seems to have moved away from the title subject

Re: Fans Meeting at City Hall - Mon 7pm : Thu Aug 02, 2012 10:31 am  

Gurus_Beard wrote:

Given your belief that the above is neither viable or Davy/McManus have levels of influence, then I am delighted you are removed from the process.

I will make this even clearer, for the hard of reading, Huddersfield are the most vociferous of all member clubs at this present time as to not wanting Bradford Bulls to be granted Super League status beyond 2012. It's no more complex than that. Their levels of influence, remains to be determined, along with St Helens'. Theory dictates one vote. In practice, influence, another.

Given the RFL's inability to offer clarity on precisely what they do require, added white noise from key chairmen, adds little to our cause.

Brian Carney and Jon Wells surmised the situation perfectly on Boots N All last night and reiterated my caveat: no consortium will provide a business plan when the scenario and landscape isn't known.

Let's see what today brings. The show ain't over...

"The RFL may feel suitably pressured by this, especially given the influence of Chairman (let's hypothetically suggest Davy and McManus) in their summary of the consortium bids."

and now

"Their levels of influence, remains to be determined"

The sheer precision of this 'conspiracy theory' is compelling. Especially when backed up by those renowned business gurus Carney and Wells.

Only a moron would believe that Davy and McManus - whatever their score on the vociferous scale - can flip Hetherington, Lenagan, Pearson, Moran and Hudgell + Watkins and the non execs. the idea that these highly successful businessmen will be bounced about by mcmanus and davy is laughable.

Re: Fans Meeting at City Hall - Mon 7pm : Thu Aug 02, 2012 10:35 am  

Cripesginger wrote:

"The RFL may feel suitably pressured by this, especially given the influence of Chairman (let's hypothetically suggest Davy and McManus) in their summary of the consortium bids."

and now

"Their levels of influence, remains to be determined"

The sheer precision of this 'conspiracy theory' is compelling. Especially when backed up by those renowned business gurus Carney and Wells.

Only a moron would believe that Davy and McManus - whatever their score on the vociferous scale - can flip Hetherington, Lenagan, Pearson, Moran and Hudgell + Watkins and the non execs. the idea that these highly successful businessmen will be bounced about by mcmanus and davy is laughable.

What makes you think Hudgell and Pearson are not aleady "flipped"?

[Bulliac]

Re: Fans Meeting at City Hall - Mon 7pm : Thu Aug 02, 2012 10:44 am  

childofthenorthern wrote:

Yes and Huddersfield and Leeds in a magnanimous gesture are going to increase the size of their academy's by 50% with associated costs. Or would they just pick the best off and drop the rest plus some from their existing rosta to balance the numbers out. I'd bet its the later resulting in less players getting coaching at the top level.

Probably correct and the more players who are involved at academy level the better for the game.

Cherry picking the 'elite' juniors may sound like a reliable way to get your hands on the best but with kids it doesn't always work out that way; the ranks of all sports are littered with 'star' juniors who, for whatever reason, don't make the grade at open age. There are also the solid performers who don't blossom until later, it is they who will fail to get academy positions if places are reduced and it is they who will never get the chance to reach their full potential.

Re: Fans Meeting at City Hall - Mon 7pm : Thu Aug 02, 2012 10:49 am  

Adeybull wrote:

What makes you think Hudgell and Pearson are not aleady "flipped"?

I think they are two successful tough minded businessmen who will make up their own mind on an issue. The suggestion that they will be manipulated / flipped by davy & mcmanus is ludicrous.

I think the overwhelming majority of club owners - which may well include the Hull owners - have made up their mind and the RFL executive know what they want (and have done so since the bulls went into admin).

You are a smart poster do you think McManus can get Lenagan and Moran to do what he wants rather than what they want? Do you think Davy would be able to get Hetherington (caddick), Pearson et al to do as he wants? it is just daft to suggest such a thing.

Re: Fans Meeting at City Hall - Mon 7pm : Thu Aug 02, 2012 10:53 am  

Think we are at cross purposes.

No-one gets to run a SL club unless they are pretty strong-willed and autocratic. They will have made up their own minds.

I am pointing out that those who may be ranged against us may be more than we woukld like to think.

Re: Latest state of play posts only : Thu Aug 02, 2012 10:56 am  

Dont think Odsal would be viable in the Championship. Means a groundshare or development of Horsfall.

Re: Latest state of play posts only : Thu Aug 02, 2012 10:59 am  

juliebull wrote:

Dont think Odsal would be viable in the Championship. Means a groundshare or development of Horsfall.

Indeed.

Re: Fans Meeting at City Hall - Mon 7pm : Thu Aug 02, 2012 11:28 am  

Adeybull wrote:

Think we are at cross purposes.

No-one gets to run a SL club unless they are pretty strong-willed and autocratic. They will have made up their own minds.

I am pointing out that those who may be ranged against us may be more than we woukld like to think.

sorry about that.

I think you are right.

Re: Latest state of play posts only : Thu Aug 02, 2012 12:44 pm  

Theboyem wrote:

I haven't said the are dishonourable and yes of course running other developments alongside is a good way of raising the finance. But the fact is nobody knows what their plans are so its that which arouses suspicion. There seems to be a flat refusal from them to put any meat on the bones of their bid either in the bids or into the public domain and RFL's refusal to entertain their bids lends to the feeling of mistrust towards them. If all is above board then get the plans out in the open so people see whats on offer. If it is reasonable then the outside pressure on the RFL will intensify to the point when they will have to back down. But whilst it seems cloak & dagger tactics are being employed then it helps to justify the RFL's position. I get the the impression ABC have gone in saying we want the lease for odsal back but they won't put forward any business plans to show what they are going to do with it to raise the revenue. It could be build a massive curry house on the pitch and shift the Bulls to VP for all the RFL know. Highly unlikely yes, but theoretically possible! Until the consortium put it in writing what their plans are then the RFL is right to hold their position. Once they do things will move on apace one way or another, so I ask again if they want to buy the club so much whats stopping them?

No, you havent said it, you have insinuated it.

Anybody can put a business plan together. Its putting a viable one together that is desirable if making a £2.5m or whatever investment, however much time they are asking for payment. Clearly knowing how much it is going to cost is the starting point with a definite figure attached to it. As for income, well, who can say for certain even if they did succeed in getting the stadium, staying in SL and keeping all the young players what that income is going to be and when? now factor in not getting the stadium or not staying in SL or not keeping the young players. factor in the £1m contingent liability if we dont play at Odsal. Expecting a business plan without answers to these drivers of income is just totally unrealistic, as the business plan would be complete guesswork or lies and we've had enough of that recently. Unless of course the bidder is a sugar daddy that can throw cash at the problem, clearly not so in this case. So if the RFL want a viable business plan, they have to come up with some answers. otherwise Nobody is going to put a plan together where all of the risk is theirs, and totally undefined, its a waste of time and money.

Anyway, lets hope there are decisive developments this afternoon, uncertainty is undermining anything positive.