Re: Administration : Thu Jun 14, 2012 10:25 am  

mat wrote:

Problem with that is our 'better informed' posters, with exception of adeybull, seem to have gone missing now the craps hit the fan. Strange that as they seemed very pro caisley/admin.

Sorry you'll hear very little from me too - I am on holiday in Cyprus.

Re: Administration : Thu Jun 14, 2012 10:25 am  

Gurus_Beard wrote:

Which would be great if you were able to articulate yourself in a coherent manner and not spurious Orwellian guff.

Re: Administration : Thu Jun 14, 2012 10:30 am  

Tigerade wrote:

The bit in bold no longer exists since the RFL changed the rules last year after Crusaders and Wakey went bust. You won't lose your SL licence.

Ohhh Sorry

Re: Time to move forward..... : Thu Jun 14, 2012 10:36 am  

GB - you have stated on here - think it was you, my apologies if not - that the club had had some ridiculous absurd notion that memberships were not subject to VAT and therefore no VAT was declared or paid on the memberships for the last two seasons?

I think it may have been you because you appear to allude to that again above?

If it WAS you, that knowledge (if it indeed be true) can only have been known to a Very few people. But leaving your own identity aside, can I ask you a straight question? To your knowledge, DID the club not account for VAT on memberships for the last two years? And If so, does that VAT remain unpaid, or was it paid out of the lease sale proceeds and therefore largely account for the Black Hole that even you will acknowledge I have been going on about for months?

And, for the total avoidance of doubt, if it ever becomes clear that what I outlined above DID happen (and the only place I have heard or read such is on here) then we were very very badly lied to and misled.

But so far I have seen nothing to confirm that story. Are you able to do so, or refute it?

Re: Time to move forward..... : Thu Jun 14, 2012 10:44 am  

Adeybull wrote:

GB - you have stated on here - think it was you, my apologies if not - that the club had had some ridiculous absurd notion that memberships were not subject to VAT and therefore no VAT was declared or paid on the memberships for the last two seasons?

I think it may have been you because you appear to allude to that again above?

If it WAS you, that knowledge (if it indeed be true) can only have been known to a Very few people. But leaving your own identity aside, can I ask you a straight question? To your knowledge, DID the club not account for VAT on memberships for the last two years? And If so, does that VAT remain unpaid, or was it paid out of the lease sale proceeds and therefore largely account for the Black Hole that even you will acknowledge I have been going on about for months?

And, for the total avoidance of doubt, if it ever becomes clear that what I outlined above DID happen (and the only place I have heard or read such is on here) then we were very very badly lied to and misled.

But so far I have seen nothing to confirm that story. Are you able to do so, or refute it?

I am honoured you are ignoring the beers, sun lounger and ice creams to chat to me

Correct, I did indeed make that very statement. The club avoided payment of VAT on season tickets by definition of Hood believing that terming them "memberships" somehow exonerated the club from any kind of liability. Quite why he arrived at this spectacularly farcical notion only he will know. Similarly why this wasn't challenged by others, is even more concerning.

To my knowledge no VAT was paid from the lease sale to HMRC for this specific large amount, because quite simply, they both ignore the clear obligation to pay and indeed were seeking to challenge the outstanding and significant, monies.

You have indeed mentioned the black hole repeatedly, and it is one of the things we have agreed on. I am more concerned this "hole" is both repaired and is closed to some degree.

I maintain faith that we will get out of this and to some degree, right now for the future of the club, brickbats, blame and toy throwing will solve little. I have been extremely critical of Hood, Bennett etc, but we are where we are and I'm pretty much done with it. They've made a spectacular b0llox of it, let's join metaphorical hands, bunch together and solve this huge mess.

Have a beer for me

[Bullseye]

Re: Time to move forward..... : Thu Jun 14, 2012 10:53 am  

Gurus_Beard wrote:

I am honoured you are ignoring the beers, sun lounger and ice creams to chat to me

Correct, I did indeed make that very statement. The club avoided payment of VAT on season tickets by definition of Hood believing that terming them "memberships" somehow exonerated the club from any kind of liability. Quite why he arrived at this spectacularly farcical notion only he will know. Similarly why this wasn't challenged by others, is even more concerning.

To my knowledge no VAT was paid from the lease sale to HMRC for this specific large amount, because quite simply, they both ignore the clear obligation to pay and indeed were seeking to challenge the outstanding and significant, monies.

You have indeed mentioned the black hole repeatedly, and it is one of the things we have agreed on. I am more concerned this "hole" is both repaired and is closed to some degree.

I maintain faith that we will get out of this and to some degree, right now for the future of the club, brickbats, blame and toy throwing will solve little. I have been extremely critical of Hood, Bennett etc, but we are where we are and I'm pretty much done with it. They've made a spectacular b0llox of it, let's join metaphorical hands, bunch together and solve this huge mess.

Have a beer for me

After reading that I feel like a few beers myself.

Re: Time to move forward..... : Thu Jun 14, 2012 10:55 am  

Adeybull wrote:

GB - you have stated on here - think it was you, my apologies if not - that the club had had some ridiculous absurd notion that memberships were not subject to VAT and therefore no VAT was declared or paid on the memberships for the last two seasons?

I think it may have been you because you appear to allude to that again above?

If it WAS you, that knowledge (if it indeed be true) can only have been known to a Very few people. But leaving your own identity aside, can I ask you a straight question? To your knowledge, DID the club not account for VAT on memberships for the last two years? And If so, does that VAT remain unpaid, or was it paid out of the lease sale proceeds and therefore largely account for the Black Hole that even you will acknowledge I have been going on about for months?

And, for the total avoidance of doubt, if it ever becomes clear that what I outlined above DID happen (and the only place I have heard or read such is on here) then we were very very badly lied to and misled.

But so far I have seen nothing to confirm that story. Are you able to do so, or refute it?

Adeybull, just get the KEO in and enjoy hallumi rolls

Re: Time to move forward..... : Thu Jun 14, 2012 10:56 am  

"united we stand , divided we fall"

I know it's an old one but the fans seem to have got it

Re: Time to move forward..... : Thu Jun 14, 2012 12:06 pm  

Cibaman wrote:

As I understand it P&A are insolvency practitioners. As such they're qualified to review our cashflows, look at whether we have assets that we can sell, identify obvious cost savings, consider how the company could be re-structured etc, etc

If you were to ask them the question "If we double or treble season ticket prices how many fans will we lose?" don't expect an answer. They could only ever aid the new Board in carrying out a Strategic Review. The Directors have to make the hard decisions themselves.

Exactly, implicit in my post. No strategy...or is there?

GB, when you posted about the membership VAT issue, I doubted not that there was such an issue but that Hood would have taken such a step without advice, for which there should be a PI policy (but theres no chance of any payout on that!), or if he didnt then he was negligent not to cover his backside. And of course I dont expect PnA to advise on teh future, my point is that the only bit of the strategy we can see is the statement of intent to enter Administration.

Interestingly theres no major drop in Paye and other taxes balances in creditors due within one year in the 2010 accounts from 2009, indeed they are nearly identical at just over £110K, which subject to VAT quarter ends etc does not tally with the two year timeframe, tho there is from 2008 to 9 a drop from c. £200k to £110k. As I recall the first pledge combined cheap "next season" tickets and a number of deals including 5 and 10 year and lifelong...membership. Do you know if ALL of these were nil/zero rated or just for example the lifelong ones? Its just that say gate sales are £2m a year, thats say £800K VAT over 2 years, which makes for a massive hole that surely would have lead to admin straight off when the books were opened up to PnA, and would have led to a more intransigent stance about paying the lease VAT in monthly instalments, if you believe Hood. Thats the trouble with black holes: no light can get out. (Post Script: just googled, 2011 pledge was for 10000 "memberships", but that is still no indication of whether lifetime, 10 years etc would be differently accounted for VAT).

Re: Time to move forward..... : Thu Jun 14, 2012 12:26 pm  

[quote="Gurus_Beard"]Nail. On. Head.

For fear of repetition, but it's clearly necessary because it was treated with some element of disdain in my initial posting, the club still owe HMRC SIGNIFICANT amounts of money, primarily due to none payment of VAT over a period of 2 years. The directors in situ previously were aware of this (and indeed the current CEO) and that concerns me.

This is complete and utter fiction and mendacious to boot.
HMRC are owed paye on last month's wages and £250,000 to be paid over 5 months.
Where on earth did you get off printing such calumny.
Shame on you.