Supporters Trust : Sat Oct 03, 2009 3:46 pm  

I've just been reading your posts regarding the fortunes of the Bulls and wondered if you had considered the possibility of setting up a Supporters Trust at all? My name is Laura Harrison and I am the Rugby League Development Officer for Supporters Direct, an organisation set up to develop and assist supporters trusts across football and now rugby league. There seems to be quite a few good ideas already from this thread in terms of player sponsorship etc and whilst these are great ideas for putting money into the club, a trust could allow you to actually manage where that money goes and how it is spent and also ensure you, as supporters, get something in return. Whilst it can be hard work, it can also give you a real opportunity to have a say in how your club is run. Whilst the example of Rochdale Hornets is an extreme one, with the trust now in ownership of the club, there are several other examples of supporters trusts in rugby league working hand in hand with the professional club to develop the profile of both organisations and ultimately strengthening the game in the area. For example, Warrington Wolves Squadbuilder is solely focussed on youth development and works hand in hand with the development team at the club to find new ways of working. They currently sponsor the academy and reserve grade sides and have also provided kit for the scolarship players as well as other equipment. The forming of a trust may also help to galvanise supporters who may have fallen away from the club in recent times. I actually met with representatives of the club back in July/August and they were wholly supportive of the trust concept and I'm sure would be happy to look at working with a trust were it to be formed. If this sounds like something you may be interested in, please feel free to give me a call on 07985 628 215 or via email at laura.harrison@supporters-direct.org and I will be happy to provide more information. You can also visit our website at www.supporters-direct.org Kind regards Laura Harrison

I've just been reading your posts regarding the fortunes of the Bulls and wondered if you had considered the possibility of setting up a Supporters Trust at all? My name is Laura Harrison and I am the Rugby League Development Officer for Supporters Direct, an organisation set up to develop and assist supporters trusts across football and now rugby league. There seems to be quite a few good ideas already from this thread in terms of player sponsorship etc and whilst these are great ideas for putting money into the club, a trust could allow you to actually manage where that money goes and how it is spent and also ensure you, as supporters, get something in return. Whilst it can be hard work, it can also give you a real opportunity to have a say in how your club is run. Whilst the example of Rochdale Hornets is an extreme one, with the trust now in ownership of the club, there are several other examples of supporters trusts in rugby league working hand in hand with the professional club to develop the profile of both organisations and ultimately strengthening the game in the area. For example, Warrington Wolves Squadbuilder is solely focussed on youth development and works hand in hand with the development team at the club to find new ways of working. They currently sponsor the academy and reserve grade sides and have also provided kit for the scolarship players as well as other equipment. The forming of a trust may also help to galvanise supporters who may have fallen away from the club in recent times. I actually met with representatives of the club back in July/August and they were wholly supportive of the trust concept and I'm sure would be happy to look at working with a trust were it to be formed. If this sounds like something you may be interested in, please feel free to give me a call on 07985 628 215 or via email at laura.harrison@supporters-direct.org and I will be happy to provide more information. You can also visit our website at www.supporters-direct.org Kind regards Laura Harrison

: Sat Oct 03, 2009 4:50 pm  

Laura, can't speak for others but on my own account thanks for the very informative post.

There are some of us on here who, several years ago, tried to do something not that totally different with an independent supporters' association. OK, the objects were a little different, but the objectives not THAT dissimilar, as you will see from the extract of the constitution I posted above. And yes, the club said they were very keen to engage with us (and indeed they did, despite some big disagreements usually with Caisley over his provocative public pronouncements). And it was clear they also had hopes that the ISA could take on some supporter-orientated activities activities from the club (not really what we were set up to do though).

In the end, despite some notable achievements it did not endure. Two reasons really, it seemed to me (others may have different views). Pretty well all the work (and there was a LOT more of it than many appreciated) was left to a (dwindling) handful of committee members, who received little encouragement let alone thanks from most (thankfully not all) of the fans - just brickbats when they were not happy with something ("...BISA should do something about it...", ...what are BISA doing...?"). And what came across as pretty general disinterest amongst most (again, thankfully not all) of the fans. OK, other people could likely have done a better job, but where were they?

I say this because, whilst in principle I think a Supporters' Trust would be an excellent idea (and indeed, we considered the idea on the BISA committee), you would need to avoid - and convince people that - a similar situation would not arise again.

You point out (rightly) that it would be hard work. I don't think the volunteers would mind so much if there were enough hands to share it around, and they were there when it mattered. Not just at inception, when its all novel and interesting, but later on when the routine grind has to be done. We set BISA up as a properly constituted ISA, with constitution and bank account and so on, and you'd need at least the same again (Trust Deed, officers, formal meetings, membership database...) with a Supporters' Trust, would you not?

I'm not trying to be negative - hell, if I was, I would not have put the hours I did into BISA - just realistic. And despite all that I have said, if enough people WERE keen to set up a ST, if they felt I could give some useful input then I'd doubtless end up volunteering (a bit) again - although heaven knows why. But I'm not sure just how much appetite there would be for making the hard yards. You'll see from earlier that there is little appetite too go beyond the simplest-possible route even for just this (excellent) sponsorship proposal - and I can only sympathise with that view.

If enough people DID decide to look further at this route, I might be prepared to help with the financial bits IF they found this helpful. Alternatively, give some assistance to whoever did, e.g at inception. After last time, I would have to restrict it to that though.

Be interested to see what others' views might be?

: Sat Oct 03, 2009 6:02 pm  

Adeybull wrote:

Laura, can't speak for others but on my own account thanks for the very informative post.

There are some of us on here who, several years ago, tried to do something not that totally different with an independent supporters' association. OK, the objects were a little different, but the objectives not THAT dissimilar, as you will see from the extract of the constitution I posted above. And yes, the club said they were very keen to engage with us (and indeed they did, despite some big disagreements usually with Caisley over his provocative public pronouncements). And it was clear they also had hopes that the ISA could take on some supporter-orientated activities activities from the club (not really what we were set up to do though).

In the end, despite some notable achievements it did not endure. Two reasons really, it seemed to me (others may have different views). Pretty well all the work (and there was a LOT more of it than many appreciated) was left to a (dwindling) handful of committee members, who received little encouragement let alone thanks from most (thankfully not all) of the fans - just brickbats when they were not happy with something ("...BISA should do something about it...", ...what are BISA doing...?"). And what came across as pretty general disinterest amongst most (again, thankfully not all) of the fans. OK, other people could likely have done a better job, but where were they?

I say this because, whilst in principle I think a Supporters' Trust would be an excellent idea (and indeed, we considered the idea on the BISA committee), you would need to avoid - and convince people that - a similar situation would not arise again.

You point out (rightly) that it would be hard work. I don't think the volunteers would mind so much if there were enough hands to share it around, and they were there when it mattered. Not just at inception, when its all novel and interesting, but later on when the routine grind has to be done. We set BISA up as a properly constituted ISA, with constitution and bank account and so on, and you'd need at least the same again (Trust Deed, officers, formal meetings, membership database...) with a Supporters' Trust, would you not?

I'm not trying to be negative - hell, if I was, I would not have put the hours I did into BISA - just realistic. And despite all that I have said, if enough people WERE keen to set up a ST, if they felt I could give some useful input then I'd doubtless end up volunteering (a bit) again - although heaven knows why. But I'm not sure just how much appetite there would be for making the hard yards. You'll see from earlier that there is little appetite too go beyond the simplest-possible route even for just this (excellent) sponsorship proposal - and I can only sympathise with that view.

If enough people DID decide to look further at this route, I might be prepared to help with the financial bits IF they found this helpful. Alternatively, give some assistance to whoever did, e.g at inception. After last time, I would have to restrict it to that though.

Be interested to see what others' views might be?

If would again be willing to help out in whatever capacity if there was to be a (3rd?) reincarmation of a BISA type group. As you said though, its hard, when despite all the complaints, comments, etc, there is very few people who are inclined to put any time into trying to do something about things.

But I'll help if needed.

: Sat Oct 03, 2009 6:22 pm  

debaser wrote:

If would again be willing to help out in whatever capacity if there was to be a (3rd?) reincarmation of a BISA type group. As you said though, its hard, when despite all the complaints, comments, etc, there is very few people who are inclined to put any time into trying to do something about things.

But I'll help if needed.

I'd consider giving it another go round, too - which is one of the reasons I raised it earlier. I could see why the old organisation had run its course, but I haven't spent as much time and effort on it as Sam, Adey and a few others, so I reckon I might still have some more to give. I also wondered if the widely-held sense of frustration and even desperation might give a fresh impetus.

However, I'd have to be convinced that any such undertaking knew what it was trying to achieve and was realistic about achieving it.

: Sat Oct 03, 2009 6:36 pm  

Adeybull wrote:

Laura, can't speak for others but on my own account thanks for the very informative post.

There are some of us on here who, several years ago, tried to do something not that totally different with an independent supporters' association. OK, the objects were a little different, but the objectives not THAT dissimilar, as you will see from the extract of the constitution I posted above. And yes, the club said they were very keen to engage with us (and indeed they did, despite some big disagreements usually with Caisley over his provocative public pronouncements). And it was clear they also had hopes that the ISA could take on some supporter-orientated activities activities from the club (not really what we were set up to do though).

In the end, despite some notable achievements it did not endure. Two reasons really, it seemed to me (others may have different views). Pretty well all the work (and there was a LOT more of it than many appreciated) was left to a (dwindling) handful of committee members, who received little encouragement let alone thanks from most (thankfully not all) of the fans - just brickbats when they were not happy with something ("...BISA should do something about it...", ...what are BISA doing...?"). And what came across as pretty general disinterest amongst most (again, thankfully not all) of the fans. OK, other people could likely have done a better job, but where were they?

I say this because, whilst in principle I think a Supporters' Trust would be an excellent idea (and indeed, we considered the idea on the BISA committee), you would need to avoid - and convince people that - a similar situation would not arise again.

You point out (rightly) that it would be hard work. I don't think the volunteers would mind so much if there were enough hands to share it around, and they were there when it mattered. Not just at inception, when its all novel and interesting, but later on when the routine grind has to be done. We set BISA up as a properly constituted ISA, with constitution and bank account and so on, and you'd need at least the same again (Trust Deed, officers, formal meetings, membership database...) with a Supporters' Trust, would you not?

I'm not trying to be negative - hell, if I was, I would not have put the hours I did into BISA - just realistic. And despite all that I have said, if enough people WERE keen to set up a ST, if they felt I could give some useful input then I'd doubtless end up volunteering (a bit) again - although heaven knows why. But I'm not sure just how much appetite there would be for making the hard yards. You'll see from earlier that there is little appetite too go beyond the simplest-possible route even for just this (excellent) sponsorship proposal - and I can only sympathise with that view.

If enough people DID decide to look further at this route, I might be prepared to help with the financial bits IF they found this helpful. Alternatively, give some assistance to whoever did, e.g at inception. After last time, I would have to restrict it to that though.

Be interested to see what others' views might be?

Couldn't put it better if I tried.

I wasn't there for the initial efforts of BISA (except as a member), but all of that perfectly sums up how it was when I was on the committee. I put a lot of my spare time into it and when personal circumstances changed so I had very little spare time and had to give up BISA, the only guilt I felt about that was that the people who would end up doing extra work would be those other committee members who already had plenty on their plate. At no point did I think I was letting the membership down, as 95% of them didn't appreciate the sheer amount of work and effort put in anyway (saying that, I think someone did step into my place, which I was thankful of).

Like Adey, I might be tempted to put a little of my time in to help out with such a thing, but certainly not to the extent I did last time. You don't mind volunteering your time for no pay out if it's helping and it's appreciated, but it was rare that I felt it was in BISA (again, except for that minority of members who did bother). When I think back to those days, I kind of appreciate Peter Hood a little more if I'm honest, as I suspect he often feels like that, but on a grander scale.

: Sat Oct 03, 2009 6:56 pm  

Just to restate from my previous post, I'm keen to put time, effort and indeed money in. I've got no history or experience with this sort of thing, and would certainly not be able to lead or organise from sratch, but I do have a heck of a lot of passion for this club, a reasonably sound business background and a relentlessly positive attitude.

So, before I start to sound like I'm writing a job application, if anyone is keen to take the plunge and lead then please count me in and I'll be there.

: Sat Oct 03, 2009 7:08 pm  

DILLIGAF wrote:

When I think back to those days, I kind of appreciate Peter Hood a little more if I'm honest, as I suspect he often feels like that, but on a grander scale.

I very nearly added that,but thought I'd said enough.

But yes. Exactly. If some who are so keen to berate Hood had actually tried to run something on an unpaid and effectively voluntary basis, maybe they too would be able to see the other side a bit? Maybe some have and still feel as they do nevertheless; but it strikes me as significant that the ones I KNOW have are not the ones abusing him.

: Sat Oct 03, 2009 7:19 pm  

Block5Bull wrote:

Just to restate from my previous post, I'm keen to put time, effort and indeed money in. I've got no history or experience with this sort of thing, and would certainly not be able to lead or organise from sratch, but I do have a heck of a lot of passion for this club, a reasonably sound business background and a relentlessly positive attitude.

So, before I start to sound like I'm writing a job application, if anyone is keen to take the plunge and lead then please count me in and I'll be there.

Hi,

I'm not one of the frequent posters on here but I do spend a lot of time reading through other peoples posts and enjoy reading the vast amount of different opinions people have.

I am 100% happy to sign up to the sponsor a player scheme but can I throw another idea into the hat please? Rather than sponsor a player who is already on their way to a regular first team spot, why not sponsor a player who has yet to make their debut? Pick one of the brightest prospects and we get that special feeling when he makes debut........ may sound a bit emotional but it would be great to see 'our player' grace the hallowed turf for the first time.

I have quoted the post from block5bull as I too would be very very willing to put time and effort into the club that has given me so much. Like block5bull, I have no experience of being involved in committees and trusts but what I can bring to the table is my time, effort and the skills from my day-to-day job.

By trade, I am an accountant/auditor therefore may either have some skills a trust can use (such as advise on finance, record keeping, legislation changes, treasury keeping) or have access to the right networks to source further information we would need.

Again, I am willing to devote time to the course and don't expect anything in return, only the chance to get involved in he greatest sport on earth and the club I love.

Thanks

: Sat Oct 03, 2009 8:08 pm  

And, in a Wigan Bull stylee...

...people who might be interested in a Supporters Trust / ISA:

1. Block5Bull
2. Debaser
3. MDF
4. Bit_of_Bully

Plus those who would be willing to give a little help without becoming too involved:

1. Adeybull
2. Dilligaf

: Sat Oct 03, 2009 10:38 pm  

As with a few others on this thread, i'm another regular reader who rarely posts but would also be willing to devote time and effort into a supporters trust should there be the appetite for it.

Again, no previous experience of being in such an organisation and I do live the wrong side of the hills these days which might limit the amount of time i could spend in Bradford if required, but I do have a good business and planning background and would be willing to help wherever possible, so count me in!