It does say something about our decline that we are now using Hull KR and Wakefield as our benchmarks rather than Leeds and St Helens.

Clearly it is too early in the season to fire the coach, although repeats of the lack of intensity shown in the Wigan performance would be a major concern. Performances in the next few matches do need to demonstrate that the coach has the support of the players.

IF there is to be a change of coach, leaving the decision until the end of the season would be a mistake. Players contracts for next year would largely be sorted by then, leaving a new coach dependent on the current coach's signings (an area in which he hasnt excelled). Recruitment would also be difficult if prospective players players were unsure who would be in charge next year. A decision would really have to be taken by mid summer.

At the start of the season most Bulls fans that I know had limited their expectations for this season to clear evidence of progress (something which does seem apparent at Hull KR despite the variability of their performances). We should know by July whether we are progressing or going backwards.

Given that I neither started, nor contributed to a recent thread on this matter, this is a pretty unfair comment.

I accept that he is a name that could be in the frame but attributing me with this is not exactly correct.

On Justin Morgan, the difference there is that he has brought a club up from a lower division, made some quality signings that Bradford should have been in the running for (e.g. Webster, Fox, possibly even Walker, Vella, Newton etc), and also managed to perform occasionally against the bigger clubs, which Bradford seem incapable of doing since 2007. Against this backdrop the occasional big losses can often be overlooked by the fans - again their expectations weren't high in the past but that won't be the case for ever.

The problem with McNamara is that things seem to be getting gradually worse every year, despite his efforts to reverse things; other coaches at 'lesser' clubs (Morgan, Matterson, Kear etc) at least give the impression that improvements are being made from previous seasons. If this downward spiral continues the club have to ask if McNamara is the right person given the resources avaiulable to take Bradford forward - but he at least needs time to show that his 2009 team can deliver. Look at Huddersfield in 2007 - started with many consecutive wins and then went on to make the play-offs.

As I've said on another thread there is a lot of talk about the re-building process but as far as the 1st team is concerned it is still in decline when ones plots results and performances since 2005. Fans won't wear the "re-building" line forever if the first team continues to decline and at some stage will need to see evidence of it bearing fruit.

Most of us aren't asking for the earth. We just want to see positive progress and signs of recovery in the next few years.

Yes we do. Stock should be taken at the end of this season, and see whether and how far we have progressed, and what we have coming through. With the obvious caveat that performances like vs. Wigan are simply unacceptable, by any team at any time, and cannot be repeated.

But some fans [iare[/i asking the earth. They want us to be either winning everything, or at least strongly challenging to win everything now, and all the time, permanently, "because we should be beating teams like these".

I think we possibly need to take stock in July and at the end of the season. In July because we need to be sure that the Wigan debacle was just an abberation. Like you I agree we need that caveat if drastic measures are needed because of the points Cibaman raises below:

Well firstly what a refreshing change this thread is.

These are the sort of threads that get the ideas flowing and there has been some really good, sensible and constructive comment made so far (for both sides of the argument).

I, like the majority of you on here, am a lifelong Bulls (/Northern) fan. The club has been in my family for more than a couple of generations and it has become synonymous with how we live our lives. I'll continue to watch them whether we're the top of the SL, bottom of SL or in the NL's. I get the feeling a big percentage of the core 10k supporters probably feel the same.

We saw Wigan’s poor 2 seasons actually galvanise the supporters and club and (I maybe wrong) increase average attendances; I'm sure someone can confirm that.

The key points for me are:
1. OSV
2. Youth development
3. Transparency with the fans
4. Commitment on the field short term (regardless of result)

Granted some of those are longer term, but let's hear about them.....PLEASE!

I don't think we have the ability to win SL, but a huge tilt at the cup should be a priority. We've seen that a lesser club can go on and win the cup with some unity, commitment and desire.

Some of the Negative Tendency originally said give it ten games (for about two nanoseconds until they backslided anyway...

)

The consensus of the Negative Tendency now is give it about one nanosecond, cos they have already decided.

The ever-sensible Cibaman says give it to July.

The 'Vark says give it to the end of the season, for equally sensible reasons, but action might be needed earlier if the Wigan debacle proves not to be a one off.

Bullseye is backing both sensible options.

Me? If the club IS contemplating any additions to or changes in the coaching staff - or if in the next few weeks it determines that it needs to - then by early summer I suggest we'd need to be making plans so anyone coming in would have time to start making THEIR plans for the 2010 team and campaign. This would be of particular importance this year given the number of players we have OOC at the end of the season. As Cibaman points out, if we left it till the end of the season, the decisions regarding signing/releasing OOC players will already have been made, and the opportunities for signings for 2010 will have reduced very significantly.

Cibaman's approach it is for me - although if anything I suggest July may be a bit late?

My emphasis re point 4. But yes, spot on IMO.

I'll add a fifth, no-brainer

5. Continuing efforts to secure an external financial backer

I'm sure the club is continually looking to resolve that fifth point!

Indeed.

Oi! You might at least have given me the by-line...!



Sorry...back to the thread now...

Over the last 16 years I have watched Bradford far more than any other club, usually as an impartial observer. I've been to most cup finals/GFs they've been in & fervently got behind them. I met MacN afew times while he was playing & he stood out from your average player. I say these things to try & show I am contributing fairly (despite my obsession with your lack of a scrum half, or the one currently in possession).
A few points from the above posts;
What happened on saturday was different to anything I have witnessed in my time watching. There was lack of/no heart or spirit. This indicates something drastically wrong in my book, usually the coach losing the dressing room. You need a performance this weekend to match the one against Leeds last season when you gave everything with a severely weakened team, to show me I'm wrong. I think possibly part of the problem is the p/ss poor support team MacN has at his disposal (but he chose 'em). I would MacN 2 more games like that, unless effort is shown he should be out.
Bulls are unlucky. Rubbish. 95% of SL/NL teams would swap with you. Unlucky is Wakefield with 10 players out, teams surviving on crowds of a few hundred having their stand burned down, Wire having Reardon, Johnson, Bridge etc almost permanently injured.
Bulls are rebuilding. It's easy to say but this should be an ongoing process, but it should. Since HP left your backs have struggled. How long do you want? A part from Deacon every one of your backs has been signed.
Bulls don't have a sugar daddy. Most clubs don't. get over it.
There are no proven coaches available. None in this country, possibly. No-one on here really knows, there would be plenty of unproven overseas candidates with top pedigrees as players &/or assistants desperate for a chance though.