: Tue Mar 10, 2009 10:30 am  

It does say something about our decline that we are now using Hull KR and Wakefield as our benchmarks rather than Leeds and St Helens.

Clearly it is too early in the season to fire the coach, although repeats of the lack of intensity shown in the Wigan performance would be a major concern. Performances in the next few matches do need to demonstrate that the coach has the support of the players.

IF there is to be a change of coach, leaving the decision until the end of the season would be a mistake. Players contracts for next year would largely be sorted by then, leaving a new coach dependent on the current coach's signings (an area in which he hasnt excelled). Recruitment would also be difficult if prospective players players were unsure who would be in charge next year. A decision would really have to be taken by mid summer.

At the start of the season most Bulls fans that I know had limited their expectations for this season to clear evidence of progress (something which does seem apparent at Hull KR despite the variability of their performances). We should know by July whether we are progressing or going backwards.

Re: Head above the parapet : Tue Mar 10, 2009 10:50 am  

af wrote:

Justin Morgan, a coach widely praised and suggested as a possible replacement for SM by Eddie has these stinkers on his cv from just last year, scorelines that would be deemed intolerable were they replicated by a McNamara Bulls side.

Given that I neither started, nor contributed to a recent thread on this matter, this is a pretty unfair comment.

I accept that he is a name that could be in the frame but attributing me with this is not exactly correct.

: Tue Mar 10, 2009 11:03 am  

On Justin Morgan, the difference there is that he has brought a club up from a lower division, made some quality signings that Bradford should have been in the running for (e.g. Webster, Fox, possibly even Walker, Vella, Newton etc), and also managed to perform occasionally against the bigger clubs, which Bradford seem incapable of doing since 2007. Against this backdrop the occasional big losses can often be overlooked by the fans - again their expectations weren't high in the past but that won't be the case for ever.

The problem with McNamara is that things seem to be getting gradually worse every year, despite his efforts to reverse things; other coaches at 'lesser' clubs (Morgan, Matterson, Kear etc) at least give the impression that improvements are being made from previous seasons. If this downward spiral continues the club have to ask if McNamara is the right person given the resources avaiulable to take Bradford forward - but he at least needs time to show that his 2009 team can deliver. Look at Huddersfield in 2007 - started with many consecutive wins and then went on to make the play-offs.

[Bullseye]

: Tue Mar 10, 2009 11:13 am  

As I've said on another thread there is a lot of talk about the re-building process but as far as the 1st team is concerned it is still in decline when ones plots results and performances since 2005. Fans won't wear the "re-building" line forever if the first team continues to decline and at some stage will need to see evidence of it bearing fruit.

Most of us aren't asking for the earth. We just want to see positive progress and signs of recovery in the next few years.

: Tue Mar 10, 2009 11:31 am  

Bullseye wrote:

As I've said on another thread there is a lot of talk about the re-building process but as far as the 1st team is concerned it is still in decline when ones plots results and performances since 2005. Fans won't wear the "re-building" line forever if the first team continues to decline and at some stage will need to see evidence of it bearing fruit.

Most of us aren't asking for the earth. We just want to see positive progress and signs of recovery in the next few years.

Yes we do. Stock should be taken at the end of this season, and see whether and how far we have progressed, and what we have coming through. With the obvious caveat that performances like vs. Wigan are simply unacceptable, by any team at any time, and cannot be repeated.

But some fans are asking the earth. They want us to be either winning everything, or at least strongly challenging to win everything now, and all the time, permanently, "because we should be beating teams like these".

[Bullseye]

: Tue Mar 10, 2009 11:35 am  

Ferocious Aardvark wrote:

Yes we do. Stock should be taken at the end of this season, and see whether and how far we have progressed, and what we have coming through. With the obvious caveat that performances like vs. Wigan are simply unacceptable, by any team at any time, and cannot be repeated.

I think we possibly need to take stock in July and at the end of the season. In July because we need to be sure that the Wigan debacle was just an abberation. Like you I agree we need that caveat if drastic measures are needed because of the points Cibaman raises below:

Cibaman wrote:

IF there is to be a change of coach, leaving the decision until the end of the season would be a mistake. Players contracts for next year would largely be sorted by then, leaving a new coach dependent on the current coach's signings (an area in which he hasnt excelled). Recruitment would also be difficult if prospective players players were unsure who would be in charge next year. A decision would really have to be taken by mid summer.

At the start of the season most Bulls fans that I know had limited their expectations for this season to clear evidence of progress (something which does seem apparent at Hull KR despite the variability of their performances). We should know by July whether we are progressing or going backwards.

: Tue Mar 10, 2009 11:46 am  

Well firstly what a refreshing change this thread is.

These are the sort of threads that get the ideas flowing and there has been some really good, sensible and constructive comment made so far (for both sides of the argument).

I, like the majority of you on here, am a lifelong Bulls (/Northern) fan. The club has been in my family for more than a couple of generations and it has become synonymous with how we live our lives. I'll continue to watch them whether we're the top of the SL, bottom of SL or in the NL's. I get the feeling a big percentage of the core 10k supporters probably feel the same.

We saw Wigan’s poor 2 seasons actually galvanise the supporters and club and (I maybe wrong) increase average attendances; I'm sure someone can confirm that.

The key points for me are:
1. OSV
2. Youth development
3. Transparency with the fans
4. Commitment on the field short term (regardless of result)

Granted some of those are longer term, but let's hear about them.....PLEASE!

I don't think we have the ability to win SL, but a huge tilt at the cup should be a priority. We've seen that a lesser club can go on and win the cup with some unity, commitment and desire.

: Tue Mar 10, 2009 11:48 am  

Some of the Negative Tendency originally said give it ten games (for about two nanoseconds until they backslided anyway... )

The consensus of the Negative Tendency now is give it about one nanosecond, cos they have already decided.

The ever-sensible Cibaman says give it to July.

The 'Vark says give it to the end of the season, for equally sensible reasons, but action might be needed earlier if the Wigan debacle proves not to be a one off.

Bullseye is backing both sensible options.

Me? If the club IS contemplating any additions to or changes in the coaching staff - or if in the next few weeks it determines that it needs to - then by early summer I suggest we'd need to be making plans so anyone coming in would have time to start making THEIR plans for the 2010 team and campaign. This would be of particular importance this year given the number of players we have OOC at the end of the season. As Cibaman points out, if we left it till the end of the season, the decisions regarding signing/releasing OOC players will already have been made, and the opportunities for signings for 2010 will have reduced very significantly.

Cibaman's approach it is for me - although if anything I suggest July may be a bit late?

: Tue Mar 10, 2009 11:53 am  

Wigan Bull wrote:

The key points for me are:

1. OSV
2. Youth development
3. Transparency with the fans
4. Perceived commitment on the field short term (regardless of result)

My emphasis re point 4. But yes, spot on IMO.

I'll add a fifth, no-brainer

5. Continuing efforts to secure an external financial backer

I'm sure the club is continually looking to resolve that fifth point!

: Tue Mar 10, 2009 12:00 pm  

Adeybull wrote:

My emphasis re point 4. But yes, spot on IMO.

I'll add a fifth, no-brainer

5. Continuing efforts to secure an external financial backer

I'm sure the club is continually looking to resolve that fifth point!

Indeed.