: Wed Mar 25, 2009 2:02 am  

Let's check out your plucked-out-of-thin-air "statistics", then.
Games vs Hull FC
22 Jun 2008 9,511 of which 90% Bulls = 8560
17 Aug 2008 9,181 of which 90% Bulls = 8262
15 Mar 2009 11,327 of which 70% Bulls = 7929

So you've conclusively proved, based on your overwhelmingly accurate straw man percentages, that the Bulls stayed away in droves. Clearly. The trend is an earthwards plummet. It's obvious. OK? And as all Hull fans will confirm, they brought only a measly 900 or so to each game last year. Agreed? But a mysterious extra 2,500 materialized this year. Wow, a 277% increase! QED.

But no, let's press on with the KR games. Bets to be sure, eh?

Games vs Hull KR
29 Jun 2008 9,741 (8766)
25 Aug 2008 10,353 (9317)
15 Feb 2009 12,141 (8498)

And yes, I am sure KR only brought 900-odd fans each game last year too. They would, I'm sure, agree with your figure. Whereas a mysterious extra 2,500 materialized this year. Bloody hell. A 250% increase!

So yes, you've conclusively proved, based on your overwhelmingly accurate straw man percentages, that the Bulls stayed away in droves, and the opposition fans miraculously made hugely unlikely increases in away support. It's so obvious. Our trend is an earthwards plummet. It's confirmed and indisputable.

Well, apart from the second game, that is, where our gate went up. No doubt, though, this was because on that day 30% of Hull KR fans attended, upping their previous 10% effort so as to provide you with some ammunition.

Games vs Huddersfield
16 Feb 2008 10,124
27 Feb 2009 10,186

Presumably these were ALL Hull fans so you've also established that no Bulls fans went to either game. Seems accurate enough to me.

Look, they're decent enough gates. End of. The Hull games show an obvious increase, and yes some of it is due to some extra fans from Hull. WTF point is there to be made here? And WTF is the point of this sort of introverted, wrist-slitting navel gazing?

OK, OK. Every fscker in the ground was from Hull. They're all from Hull. That do? Even for the Huddersfield match. THEY WERE ALL FROM HULL. Why, I'm from Hull, I now realise. The only speccies we ever get are all from Hull. Happy now?

: Wed Mar 25, 2009 2:52 am  

Durham Giant wrote:

you are a team on the way down whilst we are a team on the way up.

What do Treble Champs and Quadruple Wooden Spooners have in common? They each have only one way they can go...

[Durham Giant]

: Wed Mar 25, 2009 8:15 am  

af wrote
What do Treble Champs and Quadruple Wooden Spooners have in common? They each have only one way they can go...

Absolutely accept that. I know how successful you were in the SL era and how bad we used to be. I just get annoyed when LYING posts are put on about our fans wghen we took a very good following 4 figure support to yours this season.

: Wed Mar 25, 2009 9:03 am  

Why does anyone get so hung up about numbers of away supporters?

I care about the amount of Bulls speccies because success on the pitch is inextricably linked with amount of support and vice versa, also the atmosphere is better playing away when there is a significant Bulls presence in the stands (I tend to see more games away because I now live the "wrong" side of the Pennines) ... do I really care that the Giants bring 100, 1,000 or 10,000 speccies to Odsal ... I'm rather thankful they don't bring huge numbers (makes getting away at the end of the game easier!!)

: Wed Mar 25, 2009 10:00 am  

Adeybull wrote:

And the weather...as you said?

Look, your argument is very probably valid, and yes the commendable increase in FC and HKR fans was clear for all to ses. But my point is do we really need to spend so much time trying to find and emphasise the negatives in everything? Hell, its even afflicted a normally positive guy like you now! This is surely the corrosive effect of the Negative Tendency?

I'm just glad that its extra funds in the club's coffers.

That NT is extremely contagious you know

I am not disputing for one second that the rise isn't a good thing, I was just objectively looking at the factors influencing it.

I hope the averagages continue to rise and we're up 11.9% at come the end of the season!

: Wed Mar 25, 2009 10:08 am  

Ferocious Aardvark wrote:

Look, they're decent enough gates. End of. The Hull games show an obvious increase, and yes some of it is due to some extra fans from Hull. WTF point is there to be made here? And WTF is the point of this sort of introverted, wrist-slitting navel gazing?

With which I agree with you.
Yes, of course it is good the gates were good, but as I have stated above, I was only looking to the possible reasons why.....I was never trying to cast a negative shadow over the whole thing.

And as for the figures given, you know they were only ever meant as a tool to demonstrate the point!

Again, lets hope every team brings a healthy following and our crowds are up by 12%+ plus come the year end.

End of discussion?

: Wed Mar 25, 2009 10:17 am  

af wrote:

What do Treble Champs and Quadruple Wooden Spooners have in common? They each have only one way they can go...

Factually incorrect. Never mind.

: Wed Mar 25, 2009 10:30 am  

Wigan Bull wrote:

With which I agree with you.
Yes, of course it is good the gates were good, but as I have stated above, I was only looking to the possible reasons why.....I was never trying to cast a negative shadow over the whole thing.

And as for the figures given, you know they were only ever meant as a tool to demonstrate the point!

Again, lets hope every team brings a healthy following and our crowds are up by 12%+ plus come the year end.

End of discussion?

Not quite, mate. You said:

Certainly with the Hull game, the away support was soley responsible for keeping the gate 5 figure.

Yet if you'd checked, the gates weren't "kept" to 5 figures at all, last year we had the fixture twice, but neither was a 5 figure gate, they were 9.5K and 9.1K - yet on both occasions there was a healthy FC following included.

Your general point seemed to me that although we got both comparatively bumper increases against the Hull clubs, you were still suggesting, for reasons I can't fathom, that still in terms of BULLS fans, gates are down! It was pure negativity, based on nothing more than speculative huge alleged increases in away fans, in orders of magnitude, picked out of thin air. Even if you didn't intend it that way.

Where I would like to end the discussion is in praising those Bulls fans who have demonstrated "stickability", and praising those fans who make the effort to come to Odsal, from wherever, but from Hull in particular. The fact is that they have always come across from Hull in decent numbers, and they are good people too.

As for what our average may end up like, who knows, but unfortunately our last 3 home games are against teams with very low away followings in Harlequins, Salford and Celtic. Can I especially urge all those Hull fans who boost our home gates to please make a point of coming to those games

: Wed Mar 25, 2009 10:36 am  

Ferocious Aardvark wrote:

:D
Not quite, mate. You said:

Yet if you'd checked, the gates weren't "kept" to 5 figures at all, last year we had the fixture twice, but neither was a 5 figure gate, they were 9.5K and 9.1K - yet on both occasions there was a healthy FC following included.

That was in reference to THIS years gate.

But anyway, lets move on!

: Fri Mar 27, 2009 11:18 pm  

Code: Select all Bulls vs Giants 10,186 --> Wigan vs Giants 11,670 Not light years apart.

Code: Select all Bulls vs Giants 10,186 --> Wigan vs Giants 11,670 Not light years apart.