Re: Latest financial situation - all posts here : Thu Jun 21, 2012 9:37 am  

wrencat1873 wrote:

Although these are only basic figures, it doesn't take a rocket scientist to spot the problem. Massive drop in turnover and no reduction in costs, however as with all accounts, these are 12 months out of date and they dont show the figures for 2011.

Wrong, though.

Over half the turnover reduction reflects the ending of the release of deferred income from the Odsal settlement in 2002. No cash effect. Most of the rest WAS reflected in reduced costs. And try reducing fixed costs in a hurry when income falls quickly, as was the problem for most clubs when the Great Recession hit. Try looking at the cash flow statement and net cash position instead. it was actually far less dire than I expected.

It sounds lke the real damage was done in 2011, and the 2011 accounts will show a massive collapse in income, if the leaked numbers are to be believed. Hood said 1/4m profit, I am assumingly highly-disingenuously overlooking the presumed profit of 1 1/4m on the lease sale, giving an operating loss of around £1m in 2011. If one of the club people who I know read these forums can refute that, I beg you to do so please. I am bloody sick and tired of half-truths. THAT will have created the massive cash shortfall. No surprises now why we sold Lynch, eh?

I would like all the directors or or former directors who were owed interest dating back to over a decade previously, which interest remained unpaid the last time it was disclosed in the accounts, to state whether they waived it, or it remains outstanding, or they received repayment of it. I would also like to know whether there is any truth in what I have read on here and elsewhere, regarding one of them resorting to winding up action to obtain repayment. I doubt we will ever know except maybe if the administrator chooses to make any reference in his report to creditors, but that does not stop me wanting to know as someone who chucked nearly a grand in total into the pledge pot.

As I have kept saying, and as I think most people can now see, the future club will either have to find a shed load more enduring income than now, or find a way to slash costs very considerably. Not just one-off donations to plug the immediate gap. Slashing the playing staff costs and maybe moving to VP would seem the only realistic big-number options for the latter; hiking the season ticket prices and consumating these new sources of income Caisley suggested although in all fairness never promised were there would be for the latter.

But quite how you increase income if we have to field a far thinner and weaker squad, and especially if it means playing at VP, would seem to be the massive challenge facing the new lot. Catch-22, and they have doubtless found the same as the last lot, that it is much harder than many appreciate from outside. The prospective administrator looks to have effectively admitted that without a sugar daddy the future is bleak. I continue to hold that belief.

Re: Latest financial situation - all posts here : Thu Jun 21, 2012 9:51 am  

Adeybull wrote:

Wrong, though.

Over half the turnover reduction reflects the ending of the release of deferred income from the Odsal settlement in 2002. No cash effect. Most of the rest WAS reflected in reduced costs. And try reducing fixed costs in a hurry when income falls quickly, as was the problem for most clubs when the Great Recession hit. Try looking at the cash flow statement and net cash position instead. it was actually far less dire than I expected.

It sounds lke the real damage was done in 2011, and the 2011 accounts will show a massive collapse in income, if the leaked numbers are to be believed. Hood said 1/4m profit, I am assumingly highly-disingenuously overlooking the presumed profit of 1 1/4m on the lease sale, giving an operating loss of around £1m in 2011. If one of the club people who I know read these forums can refute that, I beg you to do so please. I am bloody sick and tired of half-truths. THAT will have created the massive cash shortfall. No surprises now why we sold Lynch, eh?

I would like all the directors or or former directors who were owed interest dating back to over a decade previously, which interest remained unpaid the last time it was disclosed in the accounts, to state whether they waived it, or it remains outstanding, or they received repayment of it. I would also like to know whether there is any truth in what I have read on here and elsewhere, regarding one of them resorting to winding up action to obtain repayment. I doubt we will ever know except maybe if the administrator chooses to make any reference in his report to creditors, but that does not stop me wanting to know as someone who chucked nearly a grand in total into the pledge pot.

As I have kept saying, and as I think most people can now see, the future club will either have to find a shed load more enduring income than now, or find a way to slash costs very considerably. Not just one-off donations to plug the immediate gap. Slashing the playing staff costs and maybe moving to VP would seem the only realistic big-number options for the latter; hiking the season ticket prices and consumating these new sources of income Caisley suggested although in all fairness never promised were there would be for the latter.

But quite how you increase income if we have to field a far thinner and weaker squad, and especially if it means playing at VP, would seem to be the massive challenge facing the new lot. Catch-22, and they have doubtless found the same as the last lot, that it is much harder than many appreciate from outside. The prospective administrator looks to have effectively admitted that without a sugar daddy the future is bleak. I continue to hold that belief.

Well said that man!

Re: Latest financial situation - all posts here : Thu Jun 21, 2012 10:28 am  

Is this all leading to Chris Caisley hoping to gain total control by "buying" the club on the cheap once administration conclude that the club in it's current form is not a going concern and it is sold as a newco as part of a liquidation agreement..??

Re: Latest financial situation - all posts here : Thu Jun 21, 2012 11:03 am  

pie.warrior wrote:

Is this all leading to Chris Caisley hoping to gain total control by "buying" the club on the cheap once administration conclude that the club in it's current form is not a going concern and it is sold as a newco as part of a liquidation agreement..??

but why would he want to? what does he gain? Control over a company thats worthless! Or a bloody big repair project and no money to do it!

again, there is no long term debt as such, but there are short, medium and longterm cash flow issues if a superleague standard team is to be sustained.

so he gets the whole club for a quid from the administrators

he's left with:

Total control of the club. including;

a decrepit stadium that he's tied to for another 6/7 years minimum, or severe financial penalty.

half a squad of players.

fewer fans coming through the gates watching a poorer team.

the risk of not getting a SL licence in 2 years.


is this club saleable for him to profit? how does he make a quick buck?

Re: Latest financial situation - all posts here : Thu Jun 21, 2012 11:13 am  

isaac1 wrote:

the risk of not getting a SL licence in 2 years.

The RFL could take that off us at any time, which they made clear when they dished out the last round of licences.

Unfortunately, at the moment I think this could be a high probability.

Re: Latest financial situation - all posts here : Thu Jun 21, 2012 11:49 am  

Unfortunately, at the moment I think this could be a high probability.

I severly doubt the RFL would want this to happen as it would make a mockery of their "stringent" testing during the franchise decisions less than a year ago.

Another reason is that SL need grounds that look full on TV to avoid embarressment (Bronco's excluded, obviously ) and no other clubs outside SL (and quite a few in it) don't get as many supporters as the Bulls. That's another reason why Rover's are fairly safe, 'cos of the big away following we "provide" other clubs.

There is no doubt in my mind that the Bradford Bulls will still be in SL playing at Odsal next year, although you may have to face the fact of some team changes that mean you are less competitive for a year or so and may have to deal with other issues such as points docked.

Being a Rovers season pass holder in the 90's, I know how bad it can get if things really do take a turn for the worst, and wouldn't wish that on anyone. Good luck to you all, and hold on tight, this ride might get a little bumpy.

Re: Latest financial situation - all posts here : Thu Jun 21, 2012 11:53 am  

PieBull wrote:

Unfortunately, at the moment I think this could be a high probability.

And give it to which other unsustainable team?

Re: Latest financial situation - all posts here : Thu Jun 21, 2012 12:54 pm  

Well, one thing is crystal clear, and that is, there is as much chance of us having a top-level SL team next season (whether oldco or newco) as there is of man landing on the Sun.

Once you resign yourself to that fact, and that IF we are in SL next year, then it will be a season of embarrassing crowds and many humiliations, my suggestion is we volunteer to drop into the Championship and take our chance. Whilst we would not play in SL next year, we would still have our SL licence, and the deal would be if we win the Championship then we resume in 2014.

We would have a good year in the Championship and as we would be the leading team we would have much better crowds than the anticipated 3-5K we will have in SL if everything goes tits, we'd have good crowds too - maybe very good; nowt the fans like better than a winning team. It would also be a big fillip for the Championship.

The idea struck me when moping about how depressing it will be in 2013 getting flogged every week in an empty stadium while watching all our former best players in other colours, and waiting for the final nail. I also remember that the season we volunteered to play in Div 2 for a year was one of the best years the fans ever had.

Deals would need to be struck with players, and with the RFL about Sky money etc., but this way we would have a financial and on-field breather year, when we could be a big fish in a small pond, and avoid the horrors that 2013 will otherwise inevitably bring. The club seems destined to exit SL to me now, one way or another, so why not this way, as opposed to a slower and much more painful and unpleasant demise?

Maybe, given that you could budget for a much higher home crowd average in the Championship (if only for a year) we could actually afford to make reasonable offers to players to persuade some of the better younger ones to stick with it. Maybe not, true, but my point on that is, we'd have more chance than we have now, as I see it. All I can see is our squad being raped over the summer, and unless our mythical investor/s finally descend from the clouds, bearing pots of gold, in the next 48 hours, then that's my suggestion, much as it pains me.

Re: Latest financial situation - all posts here : Thu Jun 21, 2012 1:27 pm  

FA a sort of Bradford Ostrich companion to the Dewsbury Ostriches, tho they dont want promotion auto or otherwise. It happens all the time in football, look at Leeds Ostriches United.

Re: Latest financial situation - all posts here : Thu Jun 21, 2012 1:30 pm  

Ferocious Aardvark wrote:

Well, one thing is crystal clear, and that is, there is as much chance of us having a top-level SL team next season (whether oldco or newco) as there is of man landing on the Sun.

Once you resign yourself to that fact, and that IF we are in SL next year, then it will be a season of embarrassing crowds and many humiliations, my suggestion is we volunteer to drop into the Championship and take our chance. Whilst we would not play in SL next year, we would still have our SL licence, and the deal would be if we win the Championship then we resume in 2014.

We would have a good year in the Championship and as we would be the leading team we would have much better crowds than the anticipated 3-5K we will have in SL if everything goes tits, we'd have good crowds too - maybe very good; nowt the fans like better than a winning team. It would also be a big fillip for the Championship.

The idea struck me when moping about how depressing it will be in 2013 getting flogged every week in an empty stadium while watching all our former best players in other colours, and waiting for the final nail. I also remember that the season we volunteered to play in Div 2 for a year was one of the best years the fans ever had.

Deals would need to be struck with players, and with the RFL about Sky money etc., but this way we would have a financial and on-field breather year, when we could be a big fish in a small pond, and avoid the horrors that 2013 will otherwise inevitably bring. The club seems destined to exit SL to me now, one way or another, so why not this way, as opposed to a slower and much more painful and unpleasant demise?

Maybe, given that you could budget for a much higher home crowd average in the Championship (if only for a year) we could actually afford to make reasonable offers to players to persuade some of the better younger ones to stick with it. Maybe not, true, but my point on that is, we'd have more chance than we have now, as I see it. All I can see is our squad being raped over the summer, and unless our mythical investor/s finally descend from the clouds, bearing pots of gold, in the next 48 hours, then that's my suggestion, much as it pains me.

Best idea i've seen on here for ages. Just need to make sure we win the CC though!