: Tue Aug 04, 2009 3:37 pm  

Bob-Marley wrote:

Leeds were quite a bit better in '98 than '97 and '97 compared to '96. Both seasons were massed with changes and only a handful stayed over those 3 seasons. We went to from bankrupt with a bad team to a top half team to grand finalists. Pretty good building blocks is some scenarios.

Yup.

It's blatantly obvious the bulls need wholesale changes.

[Bullseye]

: Tue Aug 04, 2009 4:05 pm  

Bob-Marley wrote:

Leeds were quite a bit better in '98 than '97 and '97 compared to '96. Both seasons were massed with changes and only a handful stayed over those 3 seasons. We went to from bankrupt with a bad team to a top half team to grand finalists. Pretty good building blocks is some scenarios.

Yet it all seemed to go awry under Lance. Sure a decent side was built up to 99 but by 2001 Leeds were losing by 62 points at the Bulls.

It was the building from 2001-2004 that was the real quality.

: Tue Aug 04, 2009 4:14 pm  

Adeybull wrote:

Will you stop putting up irrefutable bloody arguments! Its most distracting!

The situation - recently-promoted team that struggled to put together a SL-quality playing squad in time - gets act together after first year ensuring SL survival and licence - was a bit different. But, that aside, yes it shows that there are exceptions, and Cas' outstanding performance this season shows them to be an excellent example I'd agree.

Now I'm by no means knocking Cas, who would be my 2nd club if ever I had to pick one, but they are in 7th, 10 points behind Leeds and a dozen behind Saints. Yes we've had an appalling season but if we were now where they are now, I wouldn't think the chorus of failure, doom and sackings would be significantly different? Why is 7th so good? Am I being asked to believe that all the club's vocferous critics would have been applauding that?

By the same token, if we scrape 7th next year, will that get similar round applause on the basis that the preceing year we woz crap?

: Tue Aug 04, 2009 4:18 pm  

Ferocious Aardvark wrote:

Now I'm by no means knocking Cas, who would be my 2nd club if ever I had to pick one, but they are in 7th, 10 points behind Leeds and a dozen behind Saints. Yes we've had an appalling season but if we were now where they are now, I wouldn't think the chorus of failure, doom and sackings would be significantly different? Why is 7th so good? Am I being asked to believe that all the club's vocferous critics would have been applauding that?

By the same token, if we scrape 7th next year, will that get similar round applause on the basis that the preceing year we woz crap?

We didn't have to rebuild a side from being relagated though. Also, Cas have become competitive using their yoof. But because we won a lot of silver pots a while back expectation levels are higher in Bradford sadly.

: Tue Aug 04, 2009 5:19 pm  

Bullseye wrote:

Yet it all seemed to go awry under Lance. Sure a decent side was built up to 99 but by 2001 Leeds were losing by 62 points at the Bulls.

It was the building from 2001-2004 that was the real quality.

It's that spine of important players that have been key

burrow
mcguire
sinfield
diskin

The forwards and the backs have changed but those positions have remained.

I'd imagine leeds will continue to be ''there or thereabouts'' until these players retire.

That will be when the cycle nature of sport takes effect and leeds ''golden era'' ends.

Of course as super league get's tougher being there or thereabouts might be finished 4th and making a good fist of the playoffs arther than making grand finals every year (4 from the last 5)

: Tue Aug 04, 2009 5:29 pm  

snake eater wrote:

It's that spine of important players that have been key

burrow
mcguire
sinfield
diskin

The forwards and the backs have changed but those positions have remained.

I'd imagine leeds will continue to be ''there or thereabouts'' until these players retire.

That will be when the cycle nature of sport takes effect and leeds ''golden era'' ends.

Of course as super league get's tougher being there or thereabouts might be finished 4th and making a good fist of the playoffs arther than making grand finals every year (4 from the last 5)

Couldn't agree more. Having a halfback combo, hooker and loose forward who've played together for a long long time is bound to help any team. They're the players that combine most in a game and for them to know each other's game so well is a massive advantage.

I've said exactly the same for a couple of years now as to why Leeds are going to be consistently up there for a while yet.

: Tue Aug 04, 2009 5:43 pm  

DILLIGAF wrote:

Couldn't agree more. Having a halfback combo, hooker and loose forward who've played together for a long long time is bound to help any team. They're the players that combine most in a game and for them to know each other's game so well is a massive advantage.

I've said exactly the same for a couple of years now as to why Leeds are going to be consistently up there for a while yet.

I agree.

It'll all come crashing down when those mentioned players retire but you've just got to make the most while it lasts as i'm sure you did 96-2005.

It's a cliche but super league really is getting tougher.

A wakefield or a hudds is going to play in a grand final within the 5 years (and could win), even more so with the latest playoff format.

What you say about that quartet of players knowing each other inside out is so true. As super league get's tougher that's what makes the difference between winning and losing.

It's already happened this year, look at the amount of games leeds have scraped through in the dying seconds and look at who the contributors were.

Cas away, mcguires kick through forces off side at the death

wakey away, mcguire grubber sends ablett through

warrington - sinfields pass sends donald over at the death.

It's these key players that make the difference.

They are very difficult to replace and saints are doing an extremley good job.

: Tue Aug 04, 2009 5:44 pm  

Ancient Provocateur wrote:

We didn't have to rebuild a side from being relagated though. Also, Cas have become competitive using their yoof. But because we won a lot of silver pots a while back expectation levels are higher in Bradford sadly.

Thats the difference.

: Tue Aug 04, 2009 5:52 pm  

Adeybull wrote:

Go and be a prat on your own time, eh?

I'm just telling it how it is.

Last season you'd be bottom of the table.

You need alot of changes to make a big improvement otherwise it'll be more of the same next season.

Super league isn't getting any easier, the smallest things are making the difference in games.

Having that player who can score the try he has no right to, winning in the last seconds, that last ditch try saving tackle, these little things are worth 2-5 places in the table it's that close.

Bradford have a team of average, run of the mill campaigners. That is why you are where you are, hardly any of them provide you with that little bit extra and alot of your players have a losing mentality, having been signed from struggling teams.

Bradford lose alot of close games because of this, you often compete well.

: Tue Aug 04, 2009 5:59 pm  

snake eater wrote:

I'm just telling it how it is.

In amongst trying to be a smartarse, hence you got the prat award and deserved too on this occasion! Your winds-ups have normally been well above that sort of nonsense - were you having an off-day, or was it one shandy too many?

Incidentally, the Mk2 post was much more constructive - wasn't hard, was it?