[Bullseye]

Re: Ownership and twists : Wed Apr 30, 2014 7:37 am  

Anyone fancy a pint?

Re: Ownership and twists : Wed Apr 30, 2014 7:51 am  

Bullseye wrote:

Anyone fancy a pint?

Not half

Re: Ownership and twists : Wed Apr 30, 2014 8:35 am  

Has anyone used BULL POWER yet? I'm new to all this but tried it last night and saved a fair amount of money on both gas and electricity!

[Bulliac]

Re: Ownership and twists : Wed Apr 30, 2014 9:02 am  

Last time I changed, the one I changed to put its prices up and within two months [in so far as I was able to work out the way the pricing worked] the one I left became the cheapest. It's four times I've changed now, and the one thing I've unequivocally worked out is that the whole process is a waste of time, and now I simply can't be bothered to play silly games.

Stick with the company you've got, take their cheapest offer and every now and then the press will announce that it is the cheapest - job done!

Re: Ownership and twists : Wed Apr 30, 2014 10:06 am  

Bulliac wrote:

Last time I changed, the one I changed to put its prices up and within two months [in so far as I was able to work out the way the pricing worked] the one I left became the cheapest. It's four times I've changed now, and the one thing I've unequivocally worked out is that the whole process is a waste of time, and now I simply can't be bothered to play silly games.

Stick with the company you've got, take their cheapest offer and every now and then the press will announce that it is the cheapest - job done!

I realise you are talking about Bullpower - but you don't have to change many words to make your wise words fit the topic of the thread!!!

Re: Ownership and twists : Wed Apr 30, 2014 10:38 am  

martinwildbull wrote:

Yes, I did and am looking, and I cannot see where in the articles of association or the articles and memorandum of association it refers to holding an RFL share is a precondition of membership. Logic says it is the other way around, when the club is given membership they are then entitled to a share in the RFL. There is a reference to members sharing the profits of the RFL, and the share would be the means through which that could be done - amongst many other options.

The club is the Bradford Bulls, not OKB BB2104 or BBNL. It may be abstract, but not that difficult to understand: the member, controlling person and the club are not interchangeable. It is the club that is showing as having been deducted 6 points in the league table, not BBNL. All the other clubs in the league table have names like Wigan Warriors, etc, not the name of the vehicle through which the controlling person controls each club. If they were interchangeable, then in the definitions it would say Member: see club and controlling person. Club: see Member and controlling person. Controlling person: see Member and club. No, they are all separately defined. Because they are in the RFL regulations, all separate entities.

It isnt, it is the other way around. Here are the definitions with the articles of association

"Member"
each of those Clubs and other bodies admitted to membership of the Company and who shall together form the Council in accordance with the provisions of these Articles but, for the avoidance of doubt, excluding Honorary Positions;

"Club"
any rugby league club which is admitted by the Council as a member of the Company from time to time in accordance with these Articles;

"SLE"
Super League Europe Limited (a limited liability company registered in England with company number 3238540 and whose registered office is at Red Hall, Red Hall Lane, Leeds LS17 8NB and whose members participate in the rugby league competition known as the Super League;

"SLE Members"
those Clubs who are members of the Company and who are also members of SLE;

these definitions are all within the articles of association from the RFL verbatim. Each explicitly states that the club is the member of the company. The member of the company HAS to be a business or individual, it cannot be the abstract concept of 'club' which you are using. It has to be a legal entity. An abstract concept cannot be admitted to the council. The 'club' does not exist outside of who is the member of the RFL.

In fact, in the memorandum and articles of association for company No. 5835638, RFL
(Governing Body) Limited, it helpfully gives us examples of the subscribers, the one which is most helpful here in that it spells out everything for us is

NAMES, ADDRESSES AND DESCRIPTIONS OF SUBSCRIBERS

THE LEEDS CRICKET, FOOTBALL AND ATHLETIC COMPANY LIMITED
(trading as LEEDS RHINOS RUGBY LEAGUE FOOTBALL CLUB)
Carnegie Stadium
St Michael's Lane
Headingley
Leeds
LS6 3BR

Leeds CF&A Co Ltd is the member, they trade as Leeds Rhinos RLFC. Leeds Rhinos RLFC is a brand name belonging to Leeds CF&A who are members of the RFL. Leeds Rhinos arent, they are simply a 'name'.

According to the RFL's own documentation. The 'club' is the member of the RFL company, the 'member' of the RFL is the company holding the share of the RFL and elected/invited to the RFL council. Both the RFL and SLE are companies limited by guarantee owned by the RFL and its members.

[Pumpetypump]

Re: Ownership and twists : Wed Apr 30, 2014 10:54 am  

It’s not normally the done thing for Mods to use our ability to see IP addresses to unmask people, but in this instance might be helpful.

You see Martin Wild and FA are the same person. We can only guess at the Cataclysmic event that created these two personalities and the third one Flexwheeler, but you need to give him a bit of leeway as be publicly battles with himself.

Re: Ownership and twists : Wed Apr 30, 2014 11:05 am  

Steve_Martyn wrote:

Has anyone used BULL POWER yet? I'm new to all this but tried it last night and saved a fair amount of money on both gas and electricity!

Hmmm. You felt the urge to join rlfans yesterday and your first post is totally unrelated to rugby plugging the bull power scheme. I smell a rat/ commissioned salesman

Re: Ownership and twists : Wed Apr 30, 2014 11:18 am  

Yes, Noble and Honest, you are correct in one thing, time to nail this one.

FA's question presupposes that the club was penalised at the time of OK's control. He is wrong. Byelaws section 4.7 states that it is the readmitted or admitted member that suffers such penalty as the RFL sees fit to apply, not the expelled member. Again, simple logic tells us that, no need to throw the legalese book at it. And as it is the readmitted or admitted member that has been penalised, then that very same member, ie the Bradford Bulls under the control of Marc Green, has the right to appeal the penalty applied to it. This of course covers both the points penalty and the withholding of Sky funding.

So FA has asked the wrong question, and I have provided the answer to the right question.

Re: Ownership and twists : Wed Apr 30, 2014 11:35 am  

The RFL can apply a sanction to the club that is admitted as a condition of it being admitted nobody would argue that. The problem in this instance (and to be fair it may simply be a problem of communication) is that going by the information the RFL have communicated, they havent ever stated the sanction, or gone through the process for doing so, to BBNL, the member who is now the Bradford Bulls.

They seem to have got their timings wrong and sanctioned bb2014, who never took over 'the club' but applied it to BBNL a different member.

There is the possibility that this is entirely academic and the RFL applied the penalty to both BB2014 and BBNL and simply neglected to tell anyone about the 2nd process that got exactly the same result as the first. But it would have to be another different sanction, all be it with the same outcome.

However, by the RFL's statements and timings, if what you are saying were true, and BBNL's admittance to the RFL was a continuance of BB2014 (and OKBulls) then it is undoubted, and unarguable that when the RFL imposed the penalty on BB2014 they did so at the conclusion of that insolvency event, and it would be unarguable that their failure to complete that purchase meant that 'the bradford bulls team' which you state is a continuing 'club' had suffered another insolvency event and as such should liable for another points deduction.