: Sun Jul 19, 2009 11:50 pm  

they are much better than pen pushers/students like you tony who give nothing to thefamilies of our country

you are not a brit

: Sun Jul 19, 2009 11:51 pm  

anarkik wrote:

Well yes and no, historically when ordinary people sought to have their voices heard it was the military that put them down, from the Peterloo massacre in Manchester to the Chartist uprising in Newport, which has close links to the Bradford Chartist movement - i.e. a movement for ordinary people to have the vote. We also have a long history of sending troops to colonise other lands, subjugate their people and steal their resources, as well as a history of fighting fascism and intervening to protect minorities from being exterminated. So it's not quite as simple as it sounds.

Personally I applauded, they're brave people and I'm glad they're back with their families, I just hope that one day their bravery earns them the politicians they deserve, rather than a professional class of idiots who would never go and fight themselves, or send their own family members.

Agree totally with that sentiment. However, don't really see that the history in your first few sentences - true enough though it may be - is pertinent to the issue under discussion?

: Sun Jul 19, 2009 11:55 pm  

even when we lost in vietnam the soldiers were still heroes its about doin the stuff the average person would be too scared to, for your country

: Mon Jul 20, 2009 12:02 am  

Adeybull wrote:

Agree totally with that sentiment. However, don't really see that the history in your first few sentences - true enough though it may be - is pertinent to the issue under discussion?

Simply pointing out that the narrative of the armed forces being our guarantee of freedom is historically contingent and dependent upon whether or not our 'freedoms' coincided with the wishes of the elite at the time. It was a point made directly in response to the quote I cited.

I've already stated what my position is on clapping the military at Odsal today.

: Mon Jul 20, 2009 12:06 am  

Dennis Farrel wrote:

even when we lost in vietnam the soldiers were still heroes its about doin the stuff the average person would be too scared to, for your country

Apart from the fact we weren't in Vietnam, so you'd have to search out some French of U.S. veterans to clap. I'm presuming you're either very young, a 'joke' poster, or the Punisher back in another guise?

: Mon Jul 20, 2009 7:18 am  

rhinoms wrote:

It's because of men and women who serve that you are allowed an opinion in the 1st place and just a tip from someone who served for over 12 yrs,do yer research before spouting off about what they do that benefits you or this country!!!!!!!!

No it isnt, I'm allowed my opinion anyway. The service folk that are sent kill in foreign lands today have no bearing whatsoever with how my opinion is recieved. I know what benefits me, and it's not men out in Iraq or Afghanistan.

Do you want some praise for your service or something? Because there's plenty willing to offer you it. But go away and shine your medals before you start lecturing me, I couldn't care for the slightest in your service.

: Mon Jul 20, 2009 7:27 am  

I've pondered whether I would clap since I read the first post yesterday. I would probably have moved my hands together in a confused way that made no noise, in a show of sympathy rather than admiration. I have friends & family who have been to Iraq, now my B-in-L, who is the only soldier I have talked to who has stated he joined up to make a positive difference, is due to go to Afghanistan. I asked him 18 months ago why we are in Afghanistan, he couldn't tell me clearly; as he is a major you would think he would know. I asked him again a few weeks ago during another drunken debate, he was a bit more clear - it is now the focal point for global terrorism A movement I would argue we are largely responsible for focussing. We are also complicit in the deaths & abuse of thousands of innocents in those countries. As we have been throughout history. So when presented with a bunch of brave young men I don't think of them as heroes, I have confused thoughts of naiive political pawns who are being used to justify an illegal & immoral war. I love & admire my B-in-L more than nearly anyone I know, I don't do heroes, but I wish I had the same degree of commitment & courage as this outstanding young man who, each time I meet him, I fear it might be the last.

: Mon Jul 20, 2009 8:49 am  

Terry Monster wrote:

No it isnt, I'm allowed my opinion anyway. The service folk that are sent kill in foreign lands today have no bearing whatsoever with how my opinion is recieved. I know what benefits me, and it's not men out in Iraq or Afghanistan.

Do you want some praise for your service or something? Because there's plenty willing to offer you it. But go away and shine your medals before you start lecturing me, I couldn't care for the slightest in your service.

I've never have or will seek praise for my service and whilst you are very welcome to your opinion again ranting about our forces been in iraq and afghanistan as having no benefit is mis-informed.
I'm not bothered if you care or not what bothers me is alck of respect from someone who clearly doesn't know the full facts of what the armed forces bring.

: Mon Jul 20, 2009 8:58 am  

rhinoms wrote:

I've never have or will seek praise for my service and whilst you are very welcome to your opinion again ranting about our forces been in iraq and afghanistan as having no benefit is mis-informed.
I'm not bothered if you care or not what bothers me is alck of respect from someone who clearly doesn't know the full facts of what the armed forces bring.

I know this much, they bring me nothing. When they do, they will be praised and applauded. Until then they can keep seeking the praise from you and many others. Ive nothing to applaud them for.

: Mon Jul 20, 2009 9:10 am  

Paul124897 wrote:

You wouldn't have been saying that if an Iraqi nuke landed on your head courtesy of Mr Hussein.

The Iraqis didn't have nuclear weapons, so it would have been extremely unlikely.

And the army would have stopped a nuke exactly how?