Re: Latest state of play posts only : Mon Jul 16, 2012 7:54 am  

The RFL are between a rock and a hard place here as George Orwell nearly said "All clubs are equal, but some are more equal than others". So their "discretion" mentioned in the rules would probably favour pet expansion clubs, or high profile clubs with a big following. But they have two problems now however, not really having the finances to prop up failing clubs and allegedly several more SL hanging on by their fingertips. Whatever your ine of business if you are undercapitalised you are going to enjoy interesting times.

Re: Latest state of play posts only : Mon Jul 16, 2012 7:58 am  

The true history of this whole sorry saga has still to be written so let's concentrate on what we can do to save league in Bradford rather than argue about whether we were right or wrong to contribute to the appeal.Whether we believe CC scuppered any hope of success or whether PH presented a false prospectus is irrelevant to the here and now.
Everything I've heard and read leads me to believe that the majority of league fans want us to continue. Bad tempered arguments about what happened at Wakefield or other clubs will only alienate people. Perhaps it's a trifle romantic to assert that one of the decisive factors for the RFL Board will be that the broad mass of the league community (and that's the fans/players not the owners/boards ) agree the sanction should be limited to a points deduction.

[Bulliac]

Re: Latest state of play posts only : Mon Jul 16, 2012 8:09 am  

Just one further point.

If we are to be relegated - does this mean we won't/can't lose points this year? And of course the converse, if we get a points deduction does that mean we have been already punished and won't/can't be demoted?

Being punished twice for the same offence does seem a bit harsh - even for us.

Re: Latest state of play posts only : Mon Jul 16, 2012 8:18 am  

I was always very doubtful about The Pledge, believing that it would only delay the inevitable and that it would have been better used to fund a Newco, even one outside SL. In the end I pledged more out of a sense of guilt than logic.

In retrospect I do think the extension of time that it bought has been useful. It did demonstrate the level of support for the club which must have been a good thing in terms of gaining the support of most, if not all, of the RL community.

Perhaps one thing it did that shouldn't be underrated was to restore the bond between the fans and the club. There seemed to be a great deal of bad feeling at the start of the season, disaffection with the players and coaches. People, myself included, seemed to be going to games as much to have a moan as anything else. However the dedication of the players, coaches and staff in recent weeks has been magnificent and there is clearly much greater affection betweeen the fans and the club. We may still go bust but at least we'll go out on a high note!

Re: Latest state of play posts only : Mon Jul 16, 2012 8:26 am  

Cibaman wrote:

I was always very doubtful about The Pledge, believing that it would only delay the inevitable and that it would have been better used to fund a Newco, even one outside SL. In the end I pledged more out of a sense of guilt than logic.

In retrospect I do think the extension of time that it bought has been useful. It did demonstrate the level of support for the club which must have been a good thing in terms of gaining the support of most, if not all, of the RL community.

Perhaps one thing it did that shouldn't be underrated was to restore the bond between the fans and the club. There seemed to be a great deal of bad feeling at the start of the season, disaffection with the players and coaches. People, myself included, seemed to be going to games as much to have a moan as anything else. However the dedication of the players, coaches and staff in recent weeks has been magnificent and there is clearly much greater affection betweeen the fans and the club. We may still go bust but at least we'll go out on a high note!

Well said that man, sums up what most of us feel

Re: Latest state of play posts only : Mon Jul 16, 2012 8:47 am  

Cibaman wrote:

I was always very doubtful about The Pledge, believing that it would only delay the inevitable and that it would have been better used to fund a Newco, even one outside SL. In the end I pledged more out of a sense of guilt than logic.

In retrospect I do think the extension of time that it bought has been useful. It did demonstrate the level of support for the club which must have been a good thing in terms of gaining the support of most, if not all, of the RL community.

Perhaps one thing it did that shouldn't be underrated was to restore the bond between the fans and the club. There seemed to be a great deal of bad feeling at the start of the season, disaffection with the players and coaches. People, myself included, seemed to be going to games as much to have a moan as anything else. However the dedication of the players, coaches and staff in recent weeks has been magnificent and there is clearly much greater affection betweeen the fans and the club. We may still go bust but at least we'll go out on a high note!

I think that's really well put. We'd forgotten what a great club we are and only looking back do you see that we were in a slow death spiral which suddenly got quicker.

I think the RFL has a duty to help member clubs in difficulty but am astonished so little scrutiny has been applied to what amounted to a 700k secret loan the RFL made to the Bulls in November, 3 months after the licensing decision based on the club's financial viability. Where were the RFL accountants then? How were the Bulls ever going to pay that back? Huge questions about the governance both of the club and the game as a whole need to be looked into.

Re: Latest state of play posts only : Mon Jul 16, 2012 10:22 am  

Bulliac wrote:

Just one further point.

If we are to be relegated - does this mean we won't/can't lose points this year? And of course the converse, if we get a points deduction does that mean we have been already punished and won't/can't be demoted?

Being punished twice for the same offence does seem a bit harsh - even for us.

I think we could get both, but its more likely to be one or the other. Exit admin in some sort of positive fashion, get a points deduction. Liquidate, possibly get relegated. The RFL seem to think we can see out the season either way (not sure how?) but if we liquidate, reform immediately, and see out the season like the rfl want then I'd guess we would have a points deduction for the admin in the season we've completed in, and then we could get relegated after the season ends for the liquidation. With our luck would you bet against it?


One other point of interest for us that I picked up from the operational rules was this;

"At least one Club that has competed in the Championships during the Licence Period 2012 – 2014 and that meets minimum standards set by the Board will be granted a Super League Licence for 2015 – 2017."

I know this was guarenteed last time, and is still subject to the minimum shifting goalposts, but I must have missed the annoucement for this period. This will effect us either way (asuming we're carring on in some form or other), either we'll still be in SL in 2014 and be one of the teams at risk to be removed for 2015, as at least 1 excisting club could have to make way and we'd be a prime candidate, or if we're put into the championship for 2013, we might have an opportunity to reapply for 2015.

[Bulliac]

Re: Latest state of play posts only : Mon Jul 16, 2012 3:21 pm  

Duckman wrote:

I think we could get both, but its more likely to be one or the other. Exit admin in some sort of positive fashion, get a points deduction. Liquidate, possibly get relegated. The RFL seem to think we can see out the season either way (not sure how?) but if we liquidate, reform immediately, and see out the season like the rfl want then I'd guess we would have a points deduction for the admin in the season we've completed in, and then we could get relegated after the season ends for the liquidation. With our luck would you bet against it?


One other point of interest for us that I picked up from the operational rules was this;

"At least one Club that has competed in the Championships during the Licence Period 2012 – 2014 and that meets minimum standards set by the Board will be granted a Super League Licence for 2015 – 2017."

I know this was guarenteed last time, and is still subject to the minimum shifting goalposts, but I must have missed the annoucement for this period. This will effect us either way (asuming we're carring on in some form or other), either we'll still be in SL in 2014 and be one of the teams at risk to be removed for 2015, as at least 1 excisting club could have to make way and we'd be a prime candidate, or if we're put into the championship for 2013, we might have an opportunity to reapply for 2015.

There is nothing to say an existing club has to go down and be replaced though, so it could be an extra club from the Championship + one other, Toulouse maybe?, or a club from a development area( If the RFL are feeling brave!) to have a 16 club SL? I'm far from sure the economics would stack up, but with the RFL it certainly wouldn't come as a shock.

Re: Latest state of play posts only : Mon Jul 16, 2012 3:44 pm  

Decisions being made in smoke-filled rooms is no good for Rugby League or any other sport:

1. Bring back one-up one down promotion-relegation from next season - with the rules as to who goes up and down fixed before the first season of promotion/relegation starts. (Don't care what it is e.g. bottom club down / top club in league below up. Grand Final winner from league below up, bottom club down, play-off between bottom club and league below Grand final winner etc).

2. Go into administration - points deduction immediately. Bulls should suffer it now - but RFL wants them to fulfill 2012 fixtures.

3. Go into admin. & re-form with a "Newco" - relegation to bottom division for the next season a la Rangers.

Just keep it fair and simple - so everyone knows where they stand. There has to be an end to the "we'll make it up depending on who we're talking about", mentality.

Re: Latest state of play posts only : Mon Jul 16, 2012 5:05 pm  

Wooden Stand wrote:

Decisions being made in smoke-filled rooms is no good for Rugby League or any other sport:

1. Bring back one-up one down promotion-relegation from next season - with the rules as to who goes up and down fixed before the first season of promotion/relegation starts. (Don't care what it is e.g. bottom club down / top club in league below up. Grand Final winner from league below up, bottom club down, play-off between bottom club and league below Grand final winner etc).

2. Go into administration - points deduction immediately. Bulls should suffer it now - but RFL wants them to fulfill 2012 fixtures.

3. Go into admin. & re-form with a "Newco" - relegation to bottom division for the next season a la Rangers.

Just keep it fair and simple - so everyone knows where they stand. There has to be an end to the "we'll make it up depending on who we're talking about", mentality.

All fair points but before you make that decision go do a month's work experience at RFL when they're trying to sell tickets to international matches or finals that involve anyone other than Leeds, Wigan, Hull, Bradford, Wire and Saints. Then try running a national grass roots development programme on the income from a semi final when a well funded club sells less than 3000 tickets.

The RFL HAVE to take account of who the club is because game does not have the number of clubs with a support base that it can cast 10,000 fans plus the SKY subscription audience in the Bradford area out of Super League.