Re: Relegation.. : Tue Apr 15, 2014 3:01 pm  

Ferocious Aardvark wrote:

So if I were the owner, his job would be safe for the season, but that's perhaps because I'm too soft, and think in fairness he's earned the right to have a chance to show he can improve things on the field now things are (maybe) starting to at last settle down. But I'm pretty sure that with most hard-headed basstard businessmen he would be out the door, in a Koukash-stylee "just do it" kind of way on the basis we don't have the luxury of time.

I agree, I couldn't sack cummins on principle this year, he has been potteresqe in going above the call of duty with the crap he's had to deal with. But there are things that need to improve on the training pitch clearly and quickly that as you say have very little to do with money, and this needs to translate onto the pitch for us to have any chance.

The 17 players that took to the field on Friday and will on Thursday might not be the best 17 in the league but they are all good super league level pro players, we should be able to coach out some of the basic errors and penalties that make the game so much harder for us than it should be. Ulitimately the owner would have to think would parachuting in someone like the recently available Noble bring any more points than Cummins over the rest of the season? Im not sure it would at this stage, but he probably wouldn't do any worse so an owner more in the Koucash style might have been tempted to bring his own man in and take a shot.

Re: Relegation.. : Tue Apr 15, 2014 3:28 pm  

Pumpetypump wrote:

Leeds - 51
Saints - 50
Wigan - 42
Warrington - 38
Hudds - 34
Cas - 28
Salford - 26
Hull FC - 24
Widnes - 22
Catalan - 20
Hull kr - 15
Wakefield - 14
Bradford - 10
London - 0

Nope I can't make us stay up even using the predictor thingy. I'll readily admit that rather than red, amber, and black tinted glasses I try to save my own heartache by viewing things through glasses covered in sewage. By that definition and the calculations above I reckon even with full 6 points re-instated we'd STILL be in a relegation dogfight.

But, it does still show that the position isn't completely hopeless, and getting (say) 2 points back would at least make it very interesting!

Re: Relegation.. : Tue Apr 15, 2014 4:14 pm  

I always thought Cummins was too soft as a player to make it as a coach. He's certainly made me re-assess my opinion. Keeping a squad together has been a remarkable achievement. Until he has had a bit of time with a settled squad & club it would be an understatement to say it would be harsh to get rid now.

Re: Relegation.. : Tue Apr 15, 2014 7:33 pm  

tigertot wrote:

I always thought Cummins was too soft as a player to make it as a coach. He's certainly made me re-assess my opinion. Keeping a squad together has been a remarkable achievement. Until he has had a bit of time with a settled squad & club it would be an understatement to say it would be harsh to get rid now.

This

Re: Relegation.. : Tue Apr 15, 2014 9:19 pm  

tigertot wrote:

I always thought Cummins was too soft as a player to make it as a coach. He's certainly made me re-assess my opinion. Keeping a squad together has been a remarkable achievement. Until he has had a bit of time with a settled squad & club it would be an understatement to say it would be harsh to get rid now.

He certainly seems to have instilled a sense of unity amongst the players we have left. Franny has been involved in coaching for a long time now, he even went across to Aus for a time to further his coaching credentials. I would certainly hope that during all this time he has learnt enough to be able to coach a bunch of players into a cohesive team.
It's just unfortunate that he's never had the solid footing on which to make an impression.

I'm firmly of the belief that had we gone into this season and retained our original squad, we would be comfortable with respect to relegation. Perhaps even making a case for an 8th place finish.
Unfortunately things didn't work out like that, and I'm anxious now that FC will never properly have the chance to show just how good a coach he really is. At least, not with Bradford in the top division.
People worry that if we're relegated, it will be our players that are poached by other clubs. I say there's every chance someone will snap up FC as well.

Re: Relegation.. : Wed Apr 16, 2014 7:05 am  

I think we've shown enough against HKR,Widnes and Salford to say we've a chance of winning games and on that basis I can't see the point of changing coach right now. The influx of signings hasn't arrived although FC reckons things will happen after Easter/CC games.

We are obviously favourites for relegation but the single biggest factor in our favour is Wakefield who appear to have got worse after signing Scruton and Sammut. I know we're not meant to comment on others outcomes but how are they going to get 12/14 points. I can totally see why we may only get to 6 but from what I've seen there's 2 leagues now that Le Cats have woken up. Wakey, London and us, then the rest. It wouldn't shock me if the only teams any of the 3 beat were each other. Of the 3 the one marginally more likely to beat an injury ravaged side from higher up the league is the Bulls (just.

I genuinely think 8 points could see us survive.

Re: Relegation.. : Wed Apr 16, 2014 7:12 am  

I also think he should be given the season after the work he has done. I don't see anyone obvious to replace him with. I have to say that Powell at Cas has done a fantastic job and would take him but that is very unlikely. So, I would stick with Franny but if I was Green I would let LSH go and replace him with someone like Morrison or another strong forward. Most clubs have a pair of coaches. Franny seems to be doing everything.

Re: Relegation.. : Wed Apr 16, 2014 7:29 am  

It's easy to talk about changing the coach but that assumes there is someone better available, and that we could afford them. So to help FC it would seem more practical to bring in a few more players to the squad, maybe bring in a few more backroom staff to free FC to spend more time on the training ground.
But FC and the players do need to tighten up on the pitch as so far we are gifting way too much to the opposition this season and that is one luxury we certainly cannot afford.

Re: Relegation.. : Wed Apr 16, 2014 7:36 am  

Just to pick up and run with a couple of points made;

Yes, Wakefield are struggling, possibly because they are sticking by an underperforming coach, I question whether we should "get the jump on them" and make a change first.

Secondly, Powell is doing a cracking job at Castleford, and is doing so because the Tigers got rid of Millward.

Lastly, I don't want to get rid of Cummins, but I don't want to see the side relegated even more. And while there's a lot of love for Francis from the fans, it really could be a case of the nice guy finishing last.

All I'm advocating is that we learn from our past mistakes - boy do we have a lot to learn from - and remember how we stuck by McNamara. A more experienced coach to at least offer advice to Cummins should be an option to seriously consider, maybe there's something an older head would see that Francis can't right now.

Re: Relegation.. : Wed Apr 16, 2014 7:43 am  

Northernrelic wrote:

It's easy to talk about changing the coach but that assumes there is someone better available, and that we could afford them. So to help FC it would seem more practical to bring in a few more players to the squad, maybe bring in a few more backroom staff to free FC to spend more time on the training ground. But FC and the players do need to tighten up on the pitch as so far we are gifting way too much to the opposition this season and that is one luxury we certainly cannot afford.

You've answered the bit in bold with the sentence before. Loan deals aside do you assume there are better players available that we can afford?!

All in all, we're most definitely hamstrung by stigma as much as anything when it comes to anyone coming in. *sigh*