: Tue May 19, 2009 8:55 pm  

benjcake wrote:

Well I enjoyed the male voice choir and the tag rugby at half time. It's the entertainment during the 80 that is often lacking at home this season.

It used to be day out at your place tho pal

: Tue May 19, 2009 10:38 pm  

That's a good point and the simple answer is - it's just about gone!

No real parade, pretty dire "bands". not as much for the kids in the way of bouncy castles, no fireworks, fewer food stalls, less merchandise to buy etc..

Some of this will be due to a drop in available funds which I accept. But some of it I just don't understand. We seem to have forgotten what Odsal was like with a lot going on prior to the match.

Interestingly - in the cold wet of Sunday we had a male voice choir rarther than the usual and it was shocking - after each song there was proper applause around the ground! Usually it's the sound of one hand clapping where I'm stood but not for the choir.

: Wed May 20, 2009 12:51 am  

Wigan Bull wrote:

I don't think af was saying it was OK, just that is the pattern so far. That's how I read it anyway.

Yup. I'm not interested in any sort of positive spin here, rather trying to work out what's going on. Winning one in three games is not OK, but it is to my mind noteworthy that the majority of our games have been so close. Not that it makes things OK, rather that it indicates a different sort of problem to if we had a more widespread range of results. But what that problem is...?

: Wed May 20, 2009 8:16 am  

af wrote:

Yup. I'm not interested in any sort of positive spin here, rather trying to work out what's going on. Winning one in three games is not OK, but it is to my mind noteworthy that the majority of our games have been so close. Not that it makes things OK, rather that it indicates a different sort of problem to if we had a more widespread range of results. But what that problem is...?

I was also trying to look at the stats to work out a pattern, but its only bad news really. I worked out the stats below for our games win ratio per season for superleague matches. Whilst there are many many reasons, some structural, some luck, some of our own making and some imposed from the outside the stats do tend to confirm that our decline in performance has not been overnight (as we pretty much know), its been a steady decline in our competiveness, and I would suggest that any upturn might also involve an equally long time. It does show though that the decline in our dominance (mainly due to the increased performance levels of an increasing number of other clubs) was underway under Noble, and has continued under McNamara;

Year......win ratio (regular season).....ave att

2001......79%.................12315
2002......82%.................11525
2003......79%.................14836
2004......71%.................13500
2005......64%.................13367
2006......57%.................11263
2007......63%.................12084
2008......52%.................10287
2009......33%.................10742

Couple of interesting points, after winning the grand final in 2001, 2003, 2005 the following season each time brought a decrease in attendance (success on the pitch not everything? or fans getting complacent about success?). Only once since 2002 have we had more wins in a season than the previous season.

Just a few facts for people to make of what they will, but I'd just like to point out that a slow decline like that is unlikely to have any quick fix and that given the fall from grace still having 10,000 plus average is not too bad, evenif the last two home gates have been a cause for concern. but I'd also point out that no matter the circumstance, slow or quick decline, a win ratio of 33% is not acceptable - but then everyone including the club, fans and staff already know this.

: Wed May 20, 2009 8:28 am  

I have a bit of a theory that as the number of anti-fans increases, collisions between them and fans are statistically bound to become more frequent, and thus there is an attrition rate as fans become annihilated.

Least, that's what my great uncle Albert said.

It has long been proved (there is some research that I once found somewhere on the net) that there is no link between being a champion team and increasing crowds. Weird, but true.

OTOH there is definitely a link between a successful, entertaining team and an increase baseline of crowds, so that on Sunday we got 7K whereas pre-Bulls it might have been 2K.

Nobody really knows (now the late, great Peter Deakin is no longer with us) what the secret is, and the issue of getting people through the gate is extremely complicated. Just "winning" helps but is by no means "the answer". Having said which, I still believe that the disenchanted Bulls fans are still out there aching to be attracted back, and if for example we began next season by signing a Lockyer and winning our first 5 games, I reckon we'd quickly be back up to recent averages.

Trouble is, I can't see anything like that on the immediate horizon, though you never know, which leaves us having to string a lot of good performances together, which at the mo we seem incapable of doing, which means short term disenchanted stayaways staying away.

: Wed May 20, 2009 9:50 am  

Not to make excuses but the salary cap has started to make the comp more competitive and our decreasing stat is balanced by other teams improving theirs, e.g. Hudds.

Didn't we all long for an even SL where you couldn't predict any result week to week?
Would we all prefer a return to the 96-16 type thumpings we saw 9 years ago?
Frustrating though our form is, bigger picture it is an exciting competition.

: Wed May 20, 2009 9:58 am  

Wigan Bull wrote:

Not to make excuses but the salary cap has started to make the comp more competitive and our decreasing stat is balanced by other teams improving theirs, e.g. Hudds.

Didn't we all long for an even SL where you couldn't predict any result week to week?
Would we all prefer a return to the 96-16 type thumpings we saw 9 years ago?
Frustrating though our form is, bigger picture it is an exciting competition.

This is an interesting point but withone problem as pointed out by Statdler in the RLE. Whilst everyone wanted close games it seems that there should have been a proviso put on it. Everybody wants close games that you win at home. It seems that the close games that are being lost are by teams at home and this is affecting crowds. Last week for instance 6 teams won away from home.

: Wed May 20, 2009 10:10 am  

rugbyreddog wrote:

This is an interesting point but withone problem as pointed out by Statdler in the RLE. Whilst everyone wanted close games it seems that there should have been a proviso put on it. Everybody wants close games that you win at home. It seems that the close games that are being lost are by teams at home and this is affecting crowds. Last week for instance 6 teams won away from home.

Unfortunately we can't have it all ways can we!?

I'm fast coming round to the way of thinking that venue matters very little, if at all.

Maybe it'll encourage more away support across the board?

Who now wishes they'd gone to Saints away?

: Wed May 20, 2009 10:55 am  

Wigan Bull wrote:

...

Who now wishes they'd gone to Saints away?

Not only that, but put money on 'em too!
And told you all!

: Wed May 20, 2009 10:56 am  

A close game does not necessarily mean a good game though, if these close games were actually full of quality play then there might not be such an effect on crowds and supporters - unfortunately they aren't.

The competition may have evened, but is has evened down, not up.