: Sun Jul 12, 2009 9:41 pm  

clared wrote:

So sacking macca is the answer ?

Er... Yes...

Let me guess.. Next question "Replace with who?".

Have to see who's interested.

: Sun Jul 12, 2009 9:50 pm  

Get Noble back from Wigan

: Sun Jul 12, 2009 10:03 pm  

dixie wrote:

...
P.s. Are we now at an all time low for average super league attendance at home?

Yes. The bottom 3 are;

2009 - 10268
2008 - 10287
1996 - 10346 #

(#done from my own figures so might not be exact but its close enough i reckon, and this is nudged over 10,000 by the 17360 gate for the Wigan game)

By the end of this season we will average less than 10,000 for the first time in SL. Understandable given the performances - 1996 we only lost 1 at home, 2008 we only lost 4 at home, this year we've only won 2 at home. I think the fact we're still above 10,000 is a minor miracle.

: Sun Jul 12, 2009 10:04 pm  

I am neither a bulls fan or mcnamara fan but you all are falling into the trap that its all the coaches fault. he players you have are simply not trying in part because they are on good money and with no relegation are taking the easy option of going through the motions.

A new coach might help for a few games but you have to wake up to the fact the players are lazy and a few not good enough, plus your financial position not helping.

The finances are a major factor in mcnamara staying the club wont sack him as they cannot afford to pay him out and he will not walk why should he.

: Sun Jul 12, 2009 10:15 pm  

girl power wrote:

I am neither a bulls fan or mcnamara fan but you all are falling into the trap that its all the coaches fault. he players you have are simply not trying in part because they are on good money and with no relegation are taking the easy option of going through the motions.

A new coach might help for a few games but you have to wake up to the fact the players are lazy and a few not good enough, plus your financial position not helping.

The finances are a major factor in mcnamara staying the club wont sack him as they cannot afford to pay him out and he will not walk why should he.

What do you know about our clubs finances? Or are you just listening to the rumours?

: Sun Jul 12, 2009 10:28 pm  

girl power wrote:

I am neither a bulls fan or mcnamara fan but you all are falling into the trap that its all the coaches fault. he players you have are simply not trying in part because they are on good money and with no relegation are taking the easy option of going through the motions.

A new coach might help for a few games but you have to wake up to the fact the players are lazy and a few not good enough, plus your financial position not helping.

The finances are a major factor in mcnamara staying the club wont sack him as they cannot afford to pay him out and he will not walk why should he.

No, you are a Keighley fan. And please don't presume to tell us what we are "all" doing or that all the players are "lazy". And unless you have some inside track that all of us on here do not have, I think you will find the question of finances has been debated on here ad nauseum by people who know a lot more than you do.

girl power wrote:

I like fact not just rumours unless I start them

Speaks volumes. And I see your (highly-respected) Mod admonished you for posting potentially libelous material.

: Sun Jul 12, 2009 10:28 pm  

girl power wrote:

he will not walk why should he.

Can't argue with that.

If I was in a job where it didn't matter whether I met my objectives, and by this I mean 'as long as I had an excuse' I was still getting a paycheck every month, I know I wouldn't walk away.

Not only that, but even if I was in deep trouble, and my boss kept telling everyone he had faith in me, well that's just he icing on the cake.

: Mon Jul 13, 2009 7:53 am  

anarkik wrote:

Arguments for:
I'm sure by now everyone knows the AF position which is that we can't replace McNamara in case the incoming coach is worse.

No. I simply ask that you suggest an alternative and then argue your case as to why they will necessarily do better. And people seem reluctant to do this for some reason.

This is of course will always be the case no matter what happens, as things can always get worse, but if we never make that change we can never know, so essentially the argument is circuitous.

It's not intended to be an argument closer but an argument initiator. However, sadly too often the people calling for the sack have no clue as to who they want to bring in. Now I don't expect them to be experts in the likelihood of various prospective coaches taking the job. But the fact that they aren't doesn't seem to make them pause and wonder whether there's a soft landing at the end of the leap they want to take.

Asim makes a fair point about Millward, though 'second most successful Super League coach' is a little disingenuous given the extent to which he is damaged goods.

The second but connected argument is that no-one of any quality would want the job, but once again if we take that seriously we wouldn't get rid of McN and we'd never know if that were the case. The other difficulty with this argument is that both Tony Smith and Nathan Brown have taken over struggling/under performing teams which play in brand new stadia and are bankrolled by wealthy indviduals during McN's tenure and have improved them enormously. So whilst we don't know if either of these coaches would have come to the Bulls we do know that coaches have been available that would have likely made a significant improvement.

Crucial omissions corrected.

Look. I, like most on here, expected us to comfortably make the eight and have a decent dig at the four. The fact that we haven't done the latter and are close to certain now not even to manage the former gives me pause for thought. This squad, shorn as it has been of Solomona and Morrison, should still have been good enough to do better. In fact we have seen it do better. But rarely for a whole game, incredibly rarely in successive games since the first half of 2007.

The question is, what to do about it? Make the head coach carry the can is the obvious answer and not necessarily the wrong one. I just don't have any confidence that it won't prove to be counter-productive. In the mean time, the long term plan goes out of the window for... what? A new long term plan? Another five years? Or do we keep chopping coaches who can't get the job done inside three?

These are not rhetorical questions. They are very real ones that the club will have to face if it takes the action that pretty much everyone on here save me, Duckman and I think FA (feel free to clarify, folks) want them to take. I think the chances of us happening on another Brian Smith to turn the club around are pretty remote. I suspect we're more likely to end up with another Ron Willey. Maybe I was part of the Negative Tendency all along.

: Mon Jul 13, 2009 8:38 am  

I'm not saying that Macca is a bad coach or that we are a bad team, arguments can be made on all sides of thos equations. What is undeniable is that the club and the coach are a mismatch. We simply don't fit together.
It is also imperative that the club is now decisive and show all and sundry what they intend to do about it. I'm afraid that the youth development policy will not work on it's own. By waiting for the youth to develop we will see the crowds dwindle even lower.(This week could be alarming. WE can't qualify for the play-offs and it is the getaway weekend for the 6 weeks holidays. They could announce the crowd to the teams instead of the other way around). Once the crowds have bottomed out we may find that we have to sell any players that we develop simply to stay in business.
Maybe what we need is to put Macca in charge of the youth development whilst bringing in a proven coach that can turn fortunes around.
And don't forget the coach only needs to get us higher than 12th to be a success now, he doesn't have to be challenging for honours in his first season.

: Mon Jul 13, 2009 9:45 am  

redeverready wrote:

But like in all other teams sports isn't the had coach/manger ultimately responsible for results.

If you want trite, yes, of bloody course he is. But all season I have been hoping we could do a better analysis than just "sack the coach" which in many quarters is sheer vindictiveness, the same proponents usually also want a "hard man", hairdryer coach because they want the players to be roundly shouted at.

If I thought either of those things was THE answer then i'd support them too, but I comment on what i see, and that is, a team with a soft underbelly, not playing for each other. All must take a fair share of the blame for this disaster of a season and McNamara is the man in charge - of the first team at least - but I reserve my biggest personal criticism for the players, who have let him and all of us down, and my firm conclusion is that over a season if you played that same lot, a coaching team of JC and Vlad the Impaler wouldn't achieve a higher league position.